# Time dilation is also caused by refraction. Shapiro time delay explained.

#### marvas

'The Shapiro time delay effect, or gravitational time delay effect, is one of the four classic Solar System tests of general relativity. Radar signals passing near a massive object take slightly longer to travel to a target and longer to return than they would if the mass of the object were not present. The time delay is caused by time dilation, which increases the time it takes light to travel a given distance from the perspective of an outside observer.[...]
'Throughout this article discussing the time delay, Shapiro uses c as the speed of light and calculates the time delay of the passage of light waves or rays over finite coordinate distance according to a Schwarzschild solution to the Einstein field equations.'- Wikipedia

And, just like Einstein, completely ignores refraction. Which makes his whole calculation wrong, because he does not understand basic physics, which require to take into consideration the index of refraction, which affects the speed of light and of radio waves (electro-magnetic waves in general), each time the wave enters a medium.

Which immediately shows that the radio wave will slow down when passing near a massive object, because of the atmosphere which surrounds the massive object, i.e. sun or planet, which causes the radio wave to refract and decrease its speed to v=c/n, where n is the index of refraction of the medium. And, since time is distance over velocity, t=d/v, then if the velocity v decreases the time t decreases. So it will take a longer time for the radio wave to travel the same distance, then if it was traveling at speed c. That’s where the time delay comes from. It has absolutely nothing to do with gravity or general relativity.

So, just like in the case of gravitational redshift, einsteinian pseudo-physicists have confused an effect produced by refraction with one of gravitation. Which proves once more that general relativity is an absurd pseudo-science based on a complete ignorance of classical physics and refraction.

This is just another example of how general relativity is illogically proven by these so called scientists, who don't know basic refraction physics and confuse a well known effect of refraction with an immaginary one of gravitation. They just have to know that v=c/n, where n is index of refraction, which is learned in highschool, and do the math, which any highschool student can do. Instead they use c everywhere, instead of v=c/n, and illogically 'prove' that time is slowed down by gravity, as predicted by general relativity. But all that they prove is Einstein's prediction that:

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I’m not sure about the universe.’

#### Debed

Light is not time, though.
So what refraction occurs on the clocks in gps satellites?

#### TheBox

'The Shapiro time delay effect, or gravitational time delay effect, is one of the four classic Solar System tests of general relativity. Radar signals passing near a massive object take slightly longer to travel to a target and longer to return than they would if the mass of the object were not present. The time delay is caused by time dilation, which increases the time it takes light to travel a given distance from the perspective of an outside observer.[...]
'Throughout this article discussing the time delay, Shapiro uses c as the speed of light and calculates the time delay of the passage of light waves or rays over finite coordinate distance according to a Schwarzschild solution to the Einstein field equations.'- Wikipedia

And, just like Einstein, completely ignores refraction. Which makes his whole calculation wrong, because he does not understand basic physics, which require to take into consideration the index of refraction, which affects the speed of light and of radio waves (electro-magnetic waves in general), each time the wave enters a medium.

Which immediately shows that the radio wave will slow down when passing near a massive object, because of the atmosphere which surrounds the massive object, i.e. sun or planet, which causes the radio wave to refract and decrease its speed to v=c/n, where n is the index of refraction of the medium. And, since time is distance over velocity, t=d/v, then if the velocity v decreases the time t decreases. So it will take a longer time for the radio wave to travel the same distance, then if it was traveling at speed c. That’s where the time delay comes from. It has absolutely nothing to do with gravity or general relativity.

So, just like in the case of gravitational redshift, einsteinian pseudo-physicists have confused an effect produced by refraction with one of gravitation. Which proves once more that general relativity is an absurd pseudo-science based on a complete ignorance of classical physics and refraction.

This is just another example of how general relativity is illogically proven by these so called scientists, who don't know basic refraction physics and confuse a well known effect of refraction with an immaginary one of gravitation. They just have to know that v=c/n, where n is index of refraction, which is learned in highschool, and do the math, which any highschool student can do. Instead they use c everywhere, instead of v=c/n, and illogically 'prove' that time is slowed down by gravity, as predicted by general relativity. But all that they prove is Einstein's prediction that:

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I’m not sure about the universe.’
Can you explain what you mean by a massive object ?

'' Radar signals passing near a massive object ''

#### marvas

Can you explain what you mean by a massive object ?

'' Radar signals passing near a massive object ''
That was a quote from wikipedia. Did you not read the whole post ? I gave examples of massive objects.

#### marvas

Light is not time, though.
So what refraction occurs on the clocks in gps satellites?
And who said that 'light is time' ? WTF.

Shapiro time delay experiment has nothing to do with gps. In fact, gps sattelites did not exist when he did this test. I am explaining why his test and conclusion were flawed, and how the time delay appears simply from refraction, which he ignored.

In the case of GPS, there is refraction of the gps radio signal from space into the earth's atmosphere, which causes a delay between the time expected by using c as the speed of the gps radio wave, which they do because they ignore refraction, and the actual time when using v=c/n, where n is the index of refraction of the atmosphere.
So the signal gets naturally delayed by refraction, which they ignore, and so they think this happens because of time dilation. Just like Shapiro did. And then they conclude that the clocks on the gps are running faster than those on earth, and that they have to adjust the clocks to fix the error. The only thing that needs adjusted is their IQ, because that is the source of the error.

And the fact that GPS proves general relativity is a myth, or a lie, as are these failed tests of general relativity which are presented as evidence for Einstein's theory, when in fact they are the exact opposite, as I have eloquently proved. And not just me, Dr Edward Dowdie from Nasa has also disproved one of the tests.
And there are experts in gps with dozens of patents who say that gps has nothing to do with relativity. Ron Hatch in fact says that GPS DISPROVES both general and special relativity.

Last edited:

#### TheBox

That was a quote from wikipedia. Did you not read the whole post ? I gave examples of massive objects.
I don't think Radars work in space

#### marvas

So what refraction occurs on the clocks in gps satellites?

There is refraction of the gps radio signal from space into the earth's atmosphere, which causes a delay between the time expected by using c as the speed of the gps radio wave, which they do because they ignore refraction, and the actual time when using v=c/n, where n is the index of refraction of the atmosphere.
So the signal gets naturally delayed by refraction, which they ignore, and so they think this happens because of time dilation. Just like Shapiro did. And then they conclude that the clocks on the gps are running faster than those on earth, and that they have to adjust the clocks to fix the error. The only thing that needs adjusted is their IQ, because that is the source of the error.

TheBox

#### TheBox

There is refraction of the gps radio signal from space into the earth's atmosphere, which causes a delay between the time expected by using c as the speed of the gps radio wave, which they do because they ignore refraction, and the actual time when using v=c/n, where n is the index of refraction of the atmosphere.
So the signal gets naturally delayed by refraction, which they ignore, and so they think this happens because of time dilation. Just like Shapiro did. And then they conclude that the clocks on the gps are running faster than those on earth, and that they have to adjust the clocks to fix the error. The only thing that needs adjusted is their IQ, because that is the source of the error.
The Caesium is an unstable atom as all atoms , change the constant temperature the caesium is controlled at and that changes the constant frequency anyway .
If the Caesium was kept at a constant 1 degrees instead of 0 , there'd be a new constant frequency .
When they move the Caesium atom , they are changing the ''speed'' of space-time because of how relativity works .

#### Debed

Wow, this was a very poorly made-up website.
Did you make it in 5 minutes or something?
None of the links lead to anything substancial. They are either returning an error, or they are basically blank.
This site gets rated -F

#### Debed

There is refraction of the gps radio signal from space into the earth's atmosphere, which causes a delay between the time expected by using c as the speed of the gps radio wave, which they do because they ignore refraction, and the actual time when using v=c/n, where n is the index of refraction of the atmosphere.
So the signal gets naturally delayed by refraction, which they ignore, and so they think this happens because of time dilation. Just like Shapiro did. And then they conclude that the clocks on the gps are running faster than those on earth, and that they have to adjust the clocks to fix the error. The only thing that needs adjusted is their IQ, because that is the source of the error.
If a signal gets refracted, that means that the signal strength gets reduced. And that would be easy to measure.
And no, refraction does not cause delays. Do you not understand how refraction works?
Refraction splits the stream, making it go everywhere else except where it was aimed.
The refracted parts will go all over the place and will most likely never return to its original path of travel.
So the signal you get will be the parts that escaped any forms of refraction, and not the parts that experienced scattering.

TheBox

#### TheBox

If a signal gets refracted, that means that the signal strength gets reduced. And that would be easy to measure.
And no, refraction does not cause delays. Do you not understand how refraction works?
Refraction splits the stream, making it go everywhere else except where it was aimed.
The refracted parts will go all over the place and will most likely never return to its original path of travel.
So the signal you get will be the parts that escaped any forms of refraction, and not the parts that experienced scattering.
I understood marvas post to be stating obstruction although he used the wrong term with refraction .
The Rayleigh scattering is only part true for light travelling through a medium because some mediums are transparent . Transparent mediums allow the light to pass through in a linear manner as the light passes through the particles but also there would be some minimal Rayleigh scattering and packet loss of light .
When signals pass through clouds , scattering is probably more than through a clear atmosphere .
When light enters the ground or objects ,the light becomes very scattered .
I think the radio signals we use are sort of boosted to keep the linear aspect of travel ?

#### marvas

If a signal gets refracted, that means that the signal strength gets reduced. And that would be easy to measure.
And no, refraction does not cause delays. Do you not understand how refraction works?
Refraction splits the stream, making it go everywhere else except where it was aimed.
The refracted parts will go all over the place and will most likely never return to its original path of travel.
So the signal you get will be the parts that escaped any forms of refraction, and not the parts that experienced scattering.
You have no ideea what you're talking about. Refraction is caused by a change in the medium through which the EM wave propagates, which causes the wave to reduce its speed according to the equation v=c/n. So the GPS signal aka radio wave will experience refraction from space into the earth's atmosphere, which will slow down its propagating speed. This will obviously cause a delay ! How can you contest these obvious facts ??
And refraction causes dispersion of the components when a white light wave is passed through a prism, not through the atmosphere, because you can see the white stars very clearly despite the refraction in the atmosphere. And the splitting that you mention is not even applicable to radio waves, but to light waves.

So you're completely ignorant on this topic and tell me I dont understand how refraction works, when you dont understand the basic notions of refraction, which are learned in highschool. And even when I explained them in the original post, you still did not understand them. You clearly have an IQ problem, because its extremelly simple and logical that a reduction in the speed of the wave will cause an increase in the time it takes the radio wave to reach earth, i.e. a time delay which is caused by refraction, not by gravitation like these relative clowns claim. If you can't understand simple equations like v=c/n, and t=d/v, I highly doubt you can understand super complicated relativistic equations.
Which not even Einstein understood, because he needed mathematicians (like Grossman) to solve them for him. And even them got contradictory results, like the universe contracting, as Einstein orginally said, and universe expanding, as Friddman said. And then Einstein got frustrated and said 'since mathematicians have invaded my theory of relativity, I myself dont understand it any more.'

Last edited:

#### Debed

You have no ideea what you're talking about. Refraction is caused by a change in the medium through which the EM wave propagates, which causes the wave to reduce its speed according to the equation v=c/n. So the GPS signal aka radio wave will experience refraction from space into the earth's atmosphere, which will slow down its propagating speed. This will obviously cause a delay ! How can you contest these obvious facts ??
And refraction causes dispersion of the components when a white light wave is passed through a prism, not through the atmosphere, because you can see the white stars very clearly despite the refraction in the atmosphere. And the splitting that you mention is not even applicable to radio waves, but to light waves.

So you're completely ignorant on this topic and tell me I dont understand how refraction works, when you dont understand the basic notions of refraction, which are learned in highschool. And even when I explained them in the original post, you still did not understand them. You clearly have an IQ problem, because its extremelly simple and logical that a reduction in the speed of the wave will cause an increase in the time it takes the radio wave to reach earth, i.e. a time delay which is caused by refraction, not by gravitation like these relative clowns claim. If you can't understand simple equations like v=c/n, and t=d/v, I highly doubt you can understand super complicated relativistic equations.
Which not even Einstein understood, because he needed mathematicians (like Grossman) to solve them for him. And even them got contradictory results, like the universe contracting, as Einstein orginally said, and universe expanding, as Friddman said. And then Einstein got frustrated and said 'since mathematicians have invaded my theory of relativity, I myself dont understand it any more.'
So cute when you declare yourself defeated like that ❤️
And radiowaves are electromagnetic radiation, same as light, so what happens to light, can happen to IR, UV, radiowaves, microwaves etc. you get the point.

Let me quote the dictionary regarding refraction:
Refraction, in physics, the change in direction of a wave passing from one medium to another caused by its change in speed.

TheBox

#### TheBox

So cute when you declare yourself defeated like that ❤️
And radiowaves are electromagnetic radiation, same as light, so what happens to light, can happen to IR, UV, radiowaves, microwaves etc. you get the point.

Let me quote the dictionary regarding refraction:
Refraction, in physics, the change in direction of a wave passing from one medium to another caused by its change in speed.
''Rayleigh scattering is a physical phenomenon that occurs when light particles interact with small particles in the air, such as molecules or tiny aerosols123. The process causes the light to scatter in different directions,''

Atmosphere -
noun
1. the condition of being transparent:

The density of air or atmospheric density, denoted ρ, is the mass per unit volume of Earth's atmosphere. Air density, like air pressure, decreases with increasing altitude. It also varies due to temperature .

The speed of a wave depends upon the medium in which it propagates. This is all the information needed to answer the question .
Not forgetting of course the inverted wave function and
A heat current or thermal current is a kinetic exchange rate between molecules, relative to the material in which the kinesis occurs. It is defined as the net rate of flow of heat.

Debed

#### marvas

So cute when you declare yourself defeated like that ❤️
And radiowaves are electromagnetic radiation, same as light, so what happens to light, can happen to IR, UV, radiowaves, microwaves etc. you get the point.

Let me quote the dictionary regarding refraction:
Refraction, in physics, the change in direction of a wave passing from one medium to another caused by its change in speed.
They are EM waves, but not all that happens to light waves happens to radio waves. Radio waves can easily pass through walls, light waves cannot. Light waves can be scattered by the atmosphere from Rayleigh scattering, radio waves cannot. Just because they are all EM waves does not mean they behave the same. A radio wave cannot be split in the same way that a white light wave can, and refraction does not always cause dispersion, that is a rare phenomenon which you think is happening everytime there is a refraction, which is simply wrong.

Wow, you finally found out what refraction is. And how exactly does that contradict what I said ? It clearly says that the speed of the wave changes when the medium changes, which is what I said. It doesnt say that refraction 'splits the stream, making it go everywhere', because that is another phenomenon called dispersion. Which you confused with refraction.

How does dispersion disprove the fact that radio waves are refracted from space into the atmosphere, and this reduces their speed from c to v=c/n, thus increasing the time it takes for the GPS radio signal to reach earth ? You are completelly illogical.

Last edited:

Replies
0
Views
236
Replies
22
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K