The coronavirus did not escape from a lab. Here's how we know.

Page 6 - For the science geek in everyone, Live Science breaks down the stories behind the most interesting news and photos on the Internet.
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Apr 3, 2020
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This article is misleading. Most viruses held in labs are not genetically engineered and originate from natural sources. Just because this virus isn’t genetically modified does not mean the pandemic did not originate from a lab accident. I doubt we’ll ever know the truth, but the fact is, an accidental release from a lab is still plausible especially given the poor laboratory practices in China, notably selling carcasses of lab animals for consumption (!!!).

People simply do not want to believe this is possible, hence articles like this. Not exactly scientifically rigorous.
I think you're on the right path. Take a look at this
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
 
Apr 3, 2020
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I agree that this virus is/was not "manufactured", but the original report was that it had been isolated from animals, (specifically bats), and was one of several used in experiments on human subjects, and this was the means by which it "escaped". The story is plausible, however I do not necessarily subscribe to it at this time. Given human nature and China's record of secrecy, I doubt that the truth, (if it is even close to this), ever comes out.
You're on the right path -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
 
Apr 3, 2020
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What about this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/national-microbiology-lab-scientist-investigation-china-1.5307424

Or the article in nature which came out in 2015 in Nature:

Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research
Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.
Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this story is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.
12 November 2015

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An experiment that created a hybrid version of a bat coronavirus — one related to the virus that causes SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) — has triggered renewed debate over whether engineering lab variants of viruses with possible pandemic potential is worth the risks.
In an article published in Nature Medicine1 on 9 November, scientists investigated a virus called SHC014, which is found in horseshoe bats in China. The researchers created a chimaeric virus, made up of a surface protein of SHC014 and the backbone of a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and to mimic human disease. The chimaera infected human airway cells — proving that the surface protein of SHC014 has the necessary structure to bind to a key receptor on the cells and to infect them. It also caused disease in mice, but did not kill them.
Although almost all coronaviruses isolated from bats have not been able to bind to the key human receptor, SHC014 is not the first that can do so. In 2013, researchers reported this ability for the first time in a different coronavirus isolated from the same bat population2.

Related stories
The findings reinforce suspicions that bat coronaviruses capable of directly infecting humans (rather than first needing to evolve in an intermediate animal host) may be more common than previously thought, the researchers say.
But other virologists question whether the information gleaned from the experiment justifies the potential risk. Although the extent of any risk is difficult to assess, Simon Wain-Hobson, a virologist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, points out that the researchers have created a novel virus that “grows remarkably well” in human cells. “If the virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory,” he says.

Creation of a chimaera

The argument is essentially a rerun of the debate over whether to allow lab research that increases the virulence, ease of spread or host range of dangerous pathogens — what is known as ‘gain-of-function’ research. In October 2014, the US government imposed a moratorium on federal funding of such research on the viruses that cause SARS, influenza and MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome, a deadly disease caused by a virus that sporadically jumps from camels to people).

The latest study was already under way before the US moratorium began, and the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) allowed it to proceed while it was under review by the agency, says Ralph Baric, an infectious-disease researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, a co-author of the study. The NIH eventually concluded that the work was not so risky as to fall under the moratorium, he says.

But Wain-Hobson disapproves of the study because, he says, it provides little benefit, and reveals little about the risk that the wild SHC014 virus in bats poses to humans.

Other experiments in the study show that the virus in wild bats would need to evolve to pose any threat to humans — a change that may never happen, although it cannot be ruled out. Baric and his team reconstructed the wild virus from its genome sequence and found that it grew poorly in human cell cultures and caused no significant disease in mice.

“The only impact of this work is the creation, in a lab, of a new, non-natural risk,” agrees Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist and biodefence expert at Rutgers University in Piscataway, New Jersey. Both Ebright and Wain-Hobson are long-standing critics of gain-of-function research.
In their paper, the study authors also concede that funders may think twice about allowing such experiments in the future. "Scientific review panels may deem similar studies building chimeric viruses based on circulating strains too risky to pursue," they write, adding that discussion is needed as to "whether these types of chimeric virus studies warrant further investigation versus the inherent risks involved”.

Useful research

But Baric and others say the research did have benefits. The study findings “move this virus from a candidate emerging pathogen to a clear and present danger”, says Peter Daszak, who co-authored the 2013 paper. Daszak is president of the EcoHealth Alliance, an international network of scientists, headquartered in New York City, that samples viruses from animals and people in emerging-diseases hotspots across the globe.

Studies testing hybrid viruses in human cell culture and animal models are limited in what they can say about the threat posed by a wild virus, Daszak agrees. But he argues that they can help indicate which pathogens should be prioritized for further research attention.

Without the experiments, says Baric, the SHC014 virus would still be seen as not a threat. Previously, scientists had believed, on the basis of molecular modelling and other studies, that it should not be able to infect human cells. The latest work shows that the virus has already overcome critical barriers, such as being able to latch onto human receptors and efficiently infect human airway cells, he says. “I don't think you can ignore that.” He plans to do further studies with the virus in non-human primates, which may yield data more relevant to humans.
Nature doi:10.1038/nature.2015.18787
Great article. Thanks for sharing. I believe this is the most likely scenario. Check this out, this is gold
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
 
Apr 3, 2020
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The issue I see with this article is that it says it was not created and likely came from bats, but then failed to even address the 2015 experiment that created a hybrid version of a bat coronavirus — one related to the virus that causes SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) — which triggered renewed debate over whether engineering lab variants of viruses with possible pandemic potential is worth the risks. https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787?fbclid=IwAR0a0XDAbLn5r2oIJZCmnPSRuIvLtGl8ugyUI221sKzuuHaGoAxIdXJoZY4
This is exactly the same evidence I'm finding makes most sense. check this out. This is gold
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
 
Apr 4, 2020
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This article is misleading. Most viruses held in labs are not genetically engineered and originate from natural sources. Just because this virus isn’t genetically modified does not mean the pandemic did not originate from a lab accident. I doubt we’ll ever know the truth, but the fact is, an accidental release from a lab is still plausible especially given the poor laboratory practices in China, notably selling carcasses of lab animals for consumption (!!!).

People simply do not want to believe this is possible, hence articles like this. Not exactly scientifically rigorous.
I agree. The headline is very bad because it's not supported by the quotes in the article.

A lab escape need not mean a bioengineered virus. This article doesn't address the possibility that this coronavirus was naturally occurring, was identified, and was being studied in the lab, but then jumped to to people and escaped the lab due to an accident and/or sloppy protocols.
 
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Mar 20, 2020
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It's a Theory not a Myth. Using the word myth (instead of Theory) to shine a favorable light on your opinion is not science, not by a long shot. As others have pointed out the Lab in Wuhan was working with bats and the Corona virus. The theory is that the 'natural selection' variety of the virus escaped the lab as has happened twice in 2004 from the Beijing research lab (SARS).

Definitive proof would require much broader access to information about what happened in those facilities in the time period before the epidemic in the city.
But it is a remarkable coincidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was researching Ebola and SARS-associated coronaviruses in bats before the pandemic outbreak, and that in the month when Wuhan doctors were treating the first patients of COVID-19, the institute announced in a hiring notice that “a large number of new bat and rodent new viruses have been discovered and identified.” And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification.
 
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This article, especially the headline, is employing some of the same logical fallacies that conspiracy fantasists employ. (BTW, let's just call them what they are. Such people are fantasists, not "theorists"!) The article presents some ideas, then skips deductive reasoning (and even robust inductive reasoning) to say these facts definitively lead to the conclusion that the virus could NOT be man-made. What nonsense! Junk "science" like this only feeds into the suspicions of those worried about a lab-made SARS-COV-2 virus.
 
Apr 4, 2020
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It's a Theory not a Myth. Using the word myth (instead of Theory) to shine a favorable light on your opinion is not science, not by a long shot. As others have pointed out the Lab in Wuhan was working with bats and the Corona virus. The theory is that the 'natural selection' variety of the virus escaped the lab as has happened twice in 2004 from the Beijing research lab (SARS).

Definitive proof would require much broader access to information about what happened in those facilities in the time period before the epidemic in the city.
But it is a remarkable coincidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was researching Ebola and SARS-associated coronaviruses in bats before the pandemic outbreak, and that in the month when Wuhan doctors were treating the first patients of COVID-19, the institute announced in a hiring notice that “a large number of new bat and rodent new viruses have been discovered and identified.” And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification.
It would be nice if this comment directly referenced the sources for the claims about the Wuhan lab's work and it's hiring notices.
 
Apr 4, 2020
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A persistent coronavirus myth that this virus, called SARS-CoV-2, was made by scientists and escaped from a lab in Wuhan is completely unfounded. Here's how we know.

The coronavirus did not escape from a lab. Here's how we know. : Read more
No, you don't know. Based on the article, you are not even CLOSE to knowing. What a poor example of a supposed "debunking"! I am tired of conspiracy fantasists, but the article you reference is garbage. Sure, they fill it with detail, just like with an good hoax story joking ginned up for the Guess-the-Real-Story on "Wait! Wait! Don't Tell Me". Providing lots of details doesn't make your conclusion true. It just means you like to distract people. Due to the use of logical fallacies instead of purely **VALID** DEDUCTIVE LOGIC, the referenced article is useless.
 
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Mar 28, 2020
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Yeah mate, that is a good story but it is very well documented in the published literature that your American mates were working on the virus alongside Wuhan scientists for at least the last six years.


"Therefore, to examine the emergence potential (that is, the potential to infect humans) of circulating bat CoVs, we built a chimeric virus encoding a novel, zoonotic CoV spike protein—from the RsSHC014-CoV sequence that was isolated from Chinese horseshoe bats1—in the context of the SARS-CoV mouse-adapted backbone. The hybrid virus allowed us to evaluate the ability of the novel spike protein to cause disease independently of other necessary adaptive mutations in its natural backbone." *

*Menachery, V., Yount, B., Debbink, K. et al. A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence.Nat Med 21, 1508–1513 (2015). https://doi.org/10.1038/nm.3985
**https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
 
Mar 28, 2020
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Sadly, it was first created in a lab by US and Chinese scientists working in collaboration with Wuhan Institute of Virology.

It is well documented in the literature that this "novel" virus was first created in a lab in 2015. This LiveScience articles is propaganda, wake up or catch up, this site is not about science!

"Therefore, to examine the emergence potential (that is, the potential to infect humans) of circulating bat CoVs, we built a chimeric virus encoding a novel, zoonotic CoV spike protein—from the RsSHC014-CoV sequence that was isolated from Chinese horseshoe bats1—in the context of the SARS-CoV mouse-adapted backbone. The hybrid virus allowed us to evaluate the ability of the novel spike protein to cause disease independently of other necessary adaptive mutations in its natural backbone." *

*Menachery, V., Yount, B., Debbink, K. et al. A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence.Nat Med 21, 1508–1513 (2015). https://doi.org/10.1038/nm.3985
**https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

Just in case the Wuhan connection isn't clear they are listed as authors and contributors* in the published paper!

*Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China
  • Xing-Yi Ge
  • & Zhengli-Li Shi
 
Apr 3, 2020
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Yeah mate, that is a good story but it is very well documented in the published literature that your American mates were working on the virus alongside Wuhan scientists for at least the last six years.
Not surprised the US has worked internationally with scientists to study a virus. After all, why shouldn't we? Our presence around the world has our hands in just about everything out there - too much in my opinion. But, the purpose of the information is to not to bash the lab , scientists, and doctors who were working on it. If it was the lab, it was obviously a huge problem that the virus was able to permeate outside the controlled environment. But the problem that completely dwarfs that issue is that an involvement with covid-19 coming from a laboratory proves huge gross negligence with the state. Scientists who may have worked closely with it realized they effed up, but they warned officials of it, and they were chastised for it. The CCP took it upon themselves to ignore doctors and scientists who worked with it, in favor of appearing to have an orderly society that posed no threat. It's not the studying of the virus that's the issue, it's about finding the evidence and truth vs. the narrative that is coming from the CCP. If the virus indeed did escape a lab in late November, that means the CCP had a responsibility to deal with it in late November. If they say that the virus came from a wet market nearby, that buys them a ton of time because of its involvement with unsuspecting victims. See where I'm going with this?
 
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Inquiring mind wants to know from the genius scientists and thought leaders out there:

<>China is not the only country that has bats! True or False

<>China is not the only country that has wet markets! True or False

<>There is zero doubt that wet markets are prosperous grounds for bacteria and viruses to thrive! True or False

<>Since the wet market has been purported as the place where the virus on the bats jumped to another animal host which then jumped to infect the human host, please explain why the CCP has not exterminated and banned wet markets for eternity already (since the first SARS and after this SARS-CoV2)? And why the WHO has not condemned and recommended all countries that have wet markets to do the same so there would not be any more injury and insult from SARS-type episodes to humankind on earth ??

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

<>Given that China is NOT the only country that has bats and China is NOTthe only country that has wet markets, please explain why only China has originated the SARS-type viruses?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Apr 4, 2020
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I'm sorry but this article is misleading at best.
I don't think many thought from the start that this was a human engineered virus; it is very difficult to achieve this and in any case why would anyone release this kind of virus with its characteristics (not particularly deadly but worse than the flu and spreads easily and spreads everywhere) without a vaccine. However that doesn't mean that it didn't escape from a laboratory.
There have been many cases of extant viruses (such as SARS) escaping from laboratories and the level 4 containment lab in Wuhan did have some potential cases in the past. Add to that the fact that this lab is the first and only level 4 containment lab in China, that the Chinese needed help from the French to set it up due to lack of experience with the highest levels of protocol for protection, and it is fairly easy to see how teething difficulties might have led to the escape of a virus being studied there. The fact that the genome was available so quickly also dovetails with a lab escape being possible.
It could certainly have just come from animals, but it is highly misleading to claim that this could not have come from a laboratory, and the fact remains that we just don't know.
 
Apr 4, 2020
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A persistent coronavirus myth that this virus, called SARS-CoV-2, was made by scientists and escaped from a lab in Wuhan is completely unfounded. Here's how we know.

The coronavirus did not escape from a lab. Here's how we know. : Read more

Inquiring mind wants to know from the genius scientists and thought leaders out there:

<>China is not the only country that has bats! True or False

<>China is not the only country that has wet markets! True or False

<>There is zero doubt that wet markets are prosperous grounds for bacteria and viruses to thrive! True or False

<>Since the wet market has been purported as the place where the virus on the bats jumped to another animal host which then jumped to infect the human host, please explain why the CCP has not exterminated and banned wet markets for eternity already (since the first SARS and after this SARS-CoV2)? And why the WHO has not condemned and recommended all countries that have wet markets to do the same so there would not be any more injury and insult from SARS-type episodes to humankind on earth ??

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

<>Given that China is NOT the only country that has bats and China is NOTthe only country that has wet markets, please explain why only China has originated the SARS-type viruses?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Apr 4, 2020
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Glad that there's been an article debunking this. It's depressing how many people on the forums think that this virus was manmade.
Inquiring mind wants to know from the genius scientists and thought leaders out there:

<>China is not the only country that has bats! True or False

<>China is not the only country that has wet markets! True or False

<>There is zero doubt that wet markets are prosperous grounds for bacteria and viruses to thrive! True or False

<>Since the wet market has been purported as the place where the virus on the bats jumped to another animal host which then jumped to infect the human host, please explain why the CCP has not exterminated and banned wet markets for eternity already (since the first SARS and after this SARS-CoV2)? And why the WHO has not condemned and recommended all countries that have wet markets to do the same so there would not be any more injury and insult from SARS-type episodes to humankind on earth ??

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

<>Given that China is NOT the only country that has bats and China is NOTthe only country that has wet markets, please explain why only China has originated the SARS-type viruses?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Apr 4, 2020
2
1
10
Inquiring mind wants to know from the genius scientists and thought leaders out there:

<>China is not the only country that has bats! True or False

<>China is not the only country that has wet markets! True or False

<>There is zero doubt that wet markets are prosperous grounds for bacteria and viruses to thrive! True or False

<>Since the wet market has been purported as the place where the virus on the bats jumped to another animal host which then jumped to infect the human host, please explain why the CCP has not exterminated and banned wet markets for eternity already (since the first SARS and after this SARS-CoV2)? And why the WHO has not condemned and recommended all countries that have wet markets to do the same so there would not be any more injury and insult from SARS-type episodes to humankind on earth ??

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

<>Given that China is NOT the only country that has bats and China is NOTthe only country that has wet markets, please explain why only China has originated the SARS-type viruses?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To be fair there are a few things here. Number one, China is extremely densely populated whilst also having very close proximity to wildlife.
Whilst China is not the only country that has wet markets they are very plentiful and the key point is that they are mostly in very densely populated places. China is one of the few countries that has wet markets say 50 meters away from 5 star hotels or office buildings for example. This does mean that the jump is easier.
Historically China has also been the source for many diseases in the past again due to the abundance of wildlife within a close proximity to a huge amount of people. The fact that China is so verdant and so crowded makes it the perfect breeding ground for this.
Also, the wet markets in China are more unhygienic than any I have seen even compared to Africa where the population density is much lower in general. This lack of hygiene does mean that exposures are much higher potentially.
 
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Apr 3, 2020
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I lean towards the virus coming from the lab based on evidence of studies and job postings coming from the Wuhan lab in November 2019 specificaly detailing that they had made a recent discovery in how coronaniruses transmit between bats and humans. However, playing my own devils advocate concerning the wet market theory, you have to remember that China is a communist dictatorship with a socioeconomic top-down trickle effect. In practicality, this means there are many laws, but l ittle to no regulation. There is no law of the land like so many western countries are used to, so authority has no accountability there. Wet markets could be made illegal there, just like so many other businesses there that continue to run and know how to play the system. You see where that's going. Plus people there are very uneducated. Many adults think washing your hands is running them under water to wash away any visible dirt. Few understand sanitation concerning bacteria and hardly anyone understands viruses. So all this is to say that the CCP can make rules and appear to be handling the situation strictly, but as life carries on, it's going to be more of the same. The CCP is only concerned with the CCP, and maintaining a squeaky clean image. They will never have the ability to regulate a country of 1.3 billion people and bring them up to an acceptable world standard with sanitation in their markets. But I still think the virus escaped the lab.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
 
Apr 3, 2020
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I saw an interesting video related to the Coronavirus recently.
Check it out.
Does the Corona-virus make you think more about death?
Short answer, of course it does. It makes me think about death, and what kind of world is being left for my children. Thank you for sharing this. Many people are very quick to dismiss Christianity as an old-timey myth and even hoax at many times. There is a lot of corruption in churches for sure and ways people can point fingers, but if you read the teachings of Jesus, you'll realize that even the fools and hypocrites are never able to undermine the message he brought for humanity. His message gets watered down many times, but when you go to the source, it's powerful, and provides hope where it looks hopeless. We don't live in a sober society, and I'm not just talking about alcohol and psychoactive substance. We live steeped in comfort and in such a well secured bubble. Life can seem hectic at times, but in the spectrum of human history, most of us live in a lot of order. We are able to live in a world of comfort and drown out the idea of mortality. Events such as wars, pandemics, natural disasters, etc, are no doubt horrible and I pray that God will spare us from these things, but they do have the effect of waking people up. It's the bucket of icy water thrown on a drunk man. I hope people do think more about this and take the afterlife seriously. If anyone's determined after careful thought that you don't believe in that, I'm not going to try and convince anyone of anything. But sometimes these events can push people into forcing them to consider it in a way they never were able to before. Thanks again for sharing.
 
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