The animal kingdom is full of cheats, and it could be a driving force in evolution

Jun 20, 2023
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"...congratulations! You've just saved the life of Socrates, the Greek philosopher who chose death over breaching the trust between a citizen and the state. How likely is it that we would find a heroic martyr, willing to die for the sake of trust and honesty, in the natural world? Extremely unlikely — in fact, no known examples exist. "

So, you are either saying that Socrates was not part of the natural world, or you just sited an example of X occurring and then INSTANTLY followed that with "no known example of X exists".

Spoiler...Socrates was not "super natural" entity. He was part of the natural world.

He was pretty super.
He was natural.
But he was not outside of the realm inclusive of "the natural world".

And no, I'm not being pedantic. As a physicist who regular debates with different populations of "Believers", these words have meanings, even if it's just a conversation ABOUT ethics and morals instead of a conversation about where ethics and morals come from.

Until someone gets their Nobel Prize for proving that something super natural exists, then the statement of "in the natural world" can be replaced with "in the universe".

It's a small thing, I know. But the hidden connotation within this phrasing is that humans are somehow special, different, apart from and otherwise "better than".

Until I see some evidence, I will contest every occasion I see it implied.
 
Jun 21, 2023
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Spoiler...Socrates was not "super natural" entity. He was part of the natural world.
The author doesn't claim Socrates is supernatural. Instead, the author distinguishes the natural world as devoid of honesty. It also seems he believes the only value of honesty is to promote social intelligence and only in the context of cooperation. I find it a little disturbing that a scientist would overlook the the cognitive benefits of honesty to the individual. I also think he is completely wrong about Socrates' motivations. But I've never even heard of the Central Washington University before, so who am I to criticize ignorance?