Question Are we good at detecting when we are being manipulated by the media and google ?

adam

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Jul 2, 2020
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Dr Robert Epstein's research is very helpful.

First to be clear he stated publically in 2020 he wanted a Biden victory and supported Clinton in 2016 however there are long term Google issues he has been reporting on for many years.

If you want to know more the documentary below from 59 minutes on interviews pro Democrat Harvard trained Phd psychologist Dr Robert Epstein, who works for an independent research group in California, focusing on how Google changes peoples' opinions.

View: https://youtu.be/0v6KBGr5IzY



Larry King interviewed Dr Robert Epstein about Googles power in 2015.

He said that setting aside any deliberate human bias that Google execs introduced to Google, the search AI will determine the outcome of at least 25% of the elections around the world because the election margins are very small


The same conclusions can probably be reached about the media generally - opinions are formed based on what people experience, read and watch which the media largely controls. This changes the business and political outcomes we live in.

Dr Epstein also says in an LA Times piece

“I have become a darling of conservatives, which is driving me crazy,” Epstein said. “But they love me because I am saying things they want to hear. People I am closer to politically don’t want to hear what I have to say.”

The LA Times article goes on to say

"Yet even some scholars who think the San Diego-based psychologist is wrong about the political impact of search engines — he believes bias built into Google’s processes could have cost Republicans three California congressional districts in the last election — have started paying attention to his detailed work on how voters respond to tens of thousands of search results."


Dr Epstein states he wants a Biden victory in a 2020 FOX news video interview linked below but his concern is that while he might like the outcome now there is no guarantee about who Google will support in the future. He states Google has worked with the Chinese Communist Party in controlling its population etc


Dr Epstein states that in the days before the 2020 election he had 700+ researchers testing Google in different ways. Some were set up as Democrat and others as Republicans etc. One simple example shows Googles deliberate negative and bias action - Googles home page showed voting reminder messages to some users but not to others - Democrat leaning researchers/voters were reminded to vote while Republicans received no such message until Dr Epstein outed Google for this. The next day all Google home pages reminded people to vote

It seems clear Google does not like Dr Epstein's work and senior figures in Google have made negative comments about him in public forums including Congress which can be easily found on line

However it is clear Google has abused its great power - the EU fined Google $2.7billion for manipulating search results under anti trust monopoly legislation


There is little doubt that Google is effective at delivering consumers and opinions as its data and services are heavily used and are reshaping the advertizing business space.
Google is also very politically connected with many people from Google working for the Obama Government or taking time off to work for Hilary Clintons campaign - including the head of the Google Ideas Division. This is seen across the big tech sector
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33saYOmwaUE


The LA Times article about Dr Epstein sets out differing opinions about his work and says other Phd researchers agree Google is doing something that could be very negative and implies few apart from Dr Epstein are watching or talking about it. Another link to a Slate article is very critical of Dr Epstein and his work.

The LA Times piece seemed objective in setting out a middle ground but did not report any whistleblower claims about Googles negative actions etc

It is hard to find independent research data about Googles actions - a USAToday Republican op ed lists issues with Google such as policies blacklisting sites which are removed for political reasons etc from search results etc.




The 10 minutes or so in which Dr Epstein talks in the docu are very interesting and shows how real the manipulation is. The docu says Dr Epstein's research uses real people and real data with control groups receiving right wing, left wing and mixed data to verify the impact of viewing the different data on the results.

What was very interesting about the research is that even people who saw the data was being manipulated changed their minds in favor of the manipulated results

As well as supporting Biden now Epstein says in the LA Times 2019 article he supported Hilary Clinton for President and is photographed with her in 2016 in the article

The research tests included in the docu and Larry King interview include results using real voters in real Indian elections, and US voters being tested on Australian election data that they had no knowledge or opinion about other than from search filtered data.

An investigation was published by The Wall Street Journal and based on more than 100 interviews, as well as what the Journal said was its own testing of Google Search. The findings are likely to provide more ammunition for critics

Among the findings, even though Google says in a company blog post that “We do not use human curation to collect or arrange the results on a page,” the Journal implies the company does exactly that. Often in response to pressure from governments worldwide, businesses, or a variety of interest groups.

According to the Journal’s sources, Google has also manipulated its search algorithms to favor big businesses — and that in at least one instance, did so to favor eBay, a major Google advertiser.


A separate Harvard Researcher produced a report in 2015 about Google acting badly
 
Jan 1, 2020
173
35
1,630
Im good at detecting when Im being conned by Adobe into paying out more money

unfortunately for them & fortunately for me I saw through it

I renewed the standard PDF suite which costs about £24 (incldes the wrrantee & guarantee & when I got confirmation of my purchase I saw they'd quietly added on to it a second adobe product called OCR. i got on the phone sharpish (thankfully there is a UK Phone no)-although the bloody call centre is in India & demanded they refund a total of £75 because they deceitfully added it on hoping I wouldnt notice so they coul get a total of about £100 of me but Iwas quick on the draw to tell them I only wanted the standard & to remove the OCR & REFUND MY MONEY- which they have confirmed by phone & email that they will & it takes 5-7 working days so any of you who ever need to renew any Adobe products WATCH OUT CHECK YOUR BILL BEFORE PAYING IT
 
Jan 1, 2020
173
35
1,630
Adobe reader and photoshop were obsolete 20 years ago at least
ive never used photoshop . Its caled Adobe 2020 Suite -we still use it over here in the UK there are many avanced versions of it which Adobe tried to con me into buying but it didnt work
 

adam

BANNED
Jul 2, 2020
183
30
730
Dr Robert Epstein's research is very helpful.

First to be clear he stated publically in 2020 he wanted a Biden victory and supported Clinton in 2016 however there are long term Google issues he has been reporting on for many years.

If you want to know more the documentary below from 59 minutes on interviews pro Democrat Harvard trained Phd psychologist Dr Robert Epstein, who works for an independent research group in California, focusing on how Google changes peoples' opinions.

View: https://youtu.be/0v6KBGr5IzY



Larry King interviewed Dr Robert Epstein about Googles power in 2015.

He said that setting aside any deliberate human bias that Google execs introduced to Google, the search AI will determine the outcome of at least 25% of the elections around the world because the election margins are very small


The same conclusions can probably be reached about the media generally - opinions are formed based on what people experience, read and watch which the media largely controls. This changes the business and political outcomes we live in.

Dr Epstein also says in an LA Times piece

“I have become a darling of conservatives, which is driving me crazy,” Epstein said. “But they love me because I am saying things they want to hear. People I am closer to politically don’t want to hear what I have to say.”

The LA Times article goes on to say

"Yet even some scholars who think the San Diego-based psychologist is wrong about the political impact of search engines — he believes bias built into Google’s processes could have cost Republicans three California congressional districts in the last election — have started paying attention to his detailed work on how voters respond to tens of thousands of search results."


Dr Epstein states he wants a Biden victory in a 2020 FOX news video interview linked below but his concern is that while he might like the outcome now there is no guarantee about who Google will support in the future. He states Google has worked with the Chinese Communist Party in controlling its population etc


Dr Epstein states that in the days before the 2020 election he had 700+ researchers testing Google in different ways. Some were set up as Democrat and others as Republicans etc. One simple example shows Googles deliberate negative and bias action - Googles home page showed voting reminder messages to some users but not to others - Democrat leaning researchers/voters were reminded to vote while Republicans received no such message until Dr Epstein outed Google for this. The next day all Google home pages reminded people to vote

It seems clear Google does not like Dr Epstein's work and senior figures in Google have made negative comments about him in public forums including Congress which can be easily found on line

However it is clear Google has abused its great power - the EU fined Google $2.7billion for manipulating search results under anti trust monopoly legislation


There is little doubt that Google is effective at delivering consumers and opinions as its data and services are heavily used and are reshaping the advertizing business space.
Google is also very politically connected with many people from Google working for the Obama Government or taking time off to work for Hilary Clintons campaign - including the head of the Google Ideas Division. This is seen across the big tech sector
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33saYOmwaUE


The LA Times article about Dr Epstein sets out differing opinions about his work and says other Phd researchers agree Google is doing something that could be very negative and implies few apart from Dr Epstein are watching or talking about it. Another link to a Slate article is very critical of Dr Epstein and his work.

The LA Times piece seemed objective in setting out a middle ground but did not report any whistleblower claims about Googles negative actions etc

It is hard to find independent research data about Googles actions - a USAToday Republican op ed lists issues with Google such as policies blacklisting sites which are removed for political reasons etc from search results etc.




The 10 minutes or so in which Dr Epstein talks in the docu are very interesting and shows how real the manipulation is. The docu says Dr Epstein's research uses real people and real data with control groups receiving right wing, left wing and mixed data to verify the impact of viewing the different data on the results.

What was very interesting about the research is that even people who saw the data was being manipulated changed their minds in favor of the manipulated results

As well as supporting Biden now Epstein says in the LA Times 2019 article he supported Hilary Clinton for President and is photographed with her in 2016 in the article

The research tests included in the docu and Larry King interview include results using real voters in real Indian elections, and US voters being tested on Australian election data that they had no knowledge or opinion about other than from search filtered data.

An investigation was published by The Wall Street Journal and based on more than 100 interviews, as well as what the Journal said was its own testing of Google Search. The findings are likely to provide more ammunition for critics

Among the findings, even though Google says in a company blog post that “We do not use human curation to collect or arrange the results on a page,” the Journal implies the company does exactly that. Often in response to pressure from governments worldwide, businesses, or a variety of interest groups.

According to the Journal’s sources, Google has also manipulated its search algorithms to favor big businesses — and that in at least one instance, did so to favor eBay, a major Google advertiser.


A separate Harvard Researcher produced a report in 2015 about Google acting badly
The replies so far are not really about the subject of the post
 
Jan 1, 2020
173
35
1,630
oh rght -sorry about that i noticed you d removed them because overall in general IT matters were being disussed (in this case google) it would be ok to put the coments I did but obviously not
 

adam

BANNED
Jul 2, 2020
183
30
730
No problem - it was more about how Google and the media manipulate what we think and do.

The film was interesting as were the 2015 comments with Larry King particularly that the Google search results people read would at that time determine at least 25% of all the worlds elections results.

We dont even discuss if its ok that whoever controls Google controls much of our lives.

We wont even know after its happened because we mostly accept the search results and news we read as true so dont think there is another way.

It seems long past the time to wake up - we can see where the Google type control leads by looking at China and their thought control.
 

adam

BANNED
Jul 2, 2020
183
30
730
Dr Robert Epstein's research is very helpful.

First to be clear he stated publically in 2020 he wanted a Biden victory and supported Clinton in 2016 however there are long term Google issues he has been reporting on for many years.

If you want to know more the documentary below from 59 minutes on interviews pro Democrat Harvard trained Phd psychologist Dr Robert Epstein, who works for an independent research group in California, focusing on how Google changes peoples' opinions.

View: https://youtu.be/0v6KBGr5IzY



Larry King interviewed Dr Robert Epstein about Googles power in 2015.

He said that setting aside any deliberate human bias that Google execs introduced to Google, the search AI will determine the outcome of at least 25% of the elections around the world because the election margins are very small


The same conclusions can probably be reached about the media generally - opinions are formed based on what people experience, read and watch which the media largely controls. This changes the business and political outcomes we live in.

Dr Epstein also says in an LA Times piece

“I have become a darling of conservatives, which is driving me crazy,” Epstein said. “But they love me because I am saying things they want to hear. People I am closer to politically don’t want to hear what I have to say.”

The LA Times article goes on to say

"Yet even some scholars who think the San Diego-based psychologist is wrong about the political impact of search engines — he believes bias built into Google’s processes could have cost Republicans three California congressional districts in the last election — have started paying attention to his detailed work on how voters respond to tens of thousands of search results."


Dr Epstein states he wants a Biden victory in a 2020 FOX news video interview linked below but his concern is that while he might like the outcome now there is no guarantee about who Google will support in the future. He states Google has worked with the Chinese Communist Party in controlling its population etc


Dr Epstein states that in the days before the 2020 election he had 700+ researchers testing Google in different ways. Some were set up as Democrat and others as Republicans etc. One simple example shows Googles deliberate negative and bias action - Googles home page showed voting reminder messages to some users but not to others - Democrat leaning researchers/voters were reminded to vote while Republicans received no such message until Dr Epstein outed Google for this. The next day all Google home pages reminded people to vote

It seems clear Google does not like Dr Epstein's work and senior figures in Google have made negative comments about him in public forums including Congress which can be easily found on line

However it is clear Google has abused its great power - the EU fined Google $2.7billion for manipulating search results under anti trust monopoly legislation


There is little doubt that Google is effective at delivering consumers and opinions as its data and services are heavily used and are reshaping the advertizing business space.
Google is also very politically connected with many people from Google working for the Obama Government or taking time off to work for Hilary Clintons campaign - including the head of the Google Ideas Division. This is seen across the big tech sector
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33saYOmwaUE


The LA Times article about Dr Epstein sets out differing opinions about his work and says other Phd researchers agree Google is doing something that could be very negative and implies few apart from Dr Epstein are watching or talking about it. Another link to a Slate article is very critical of Dr Epstein and his work.

The LA Times piece seemed objective in setting out a middle ground but did not report any whistleblower claims about Googles negative actions etc

It is hard to find independent research data about Googles actions - a USAToday Republican op ed lists issues with Google such as policies blacklisting sites which are removed for political reasons etc from search results etc.




The 10 minutes or so in which Dr Epstein talks in the docu are very interesting and shows how real the manipulation is. The docu says Dr Epstein's research uses real people and real data with control groups receiving right wing, left wing and mixed data to verify the impact of viewing the different data on the results.

What was very interesting about the research is that even people who saw the data was being manipulated changed their minds in favor of the manipulated results

As well as supporting Biden now Epstein says in the LA Times 2019 article he supported Hilary Clinton for President and is photographed with her in 2016 in the article

The research tests included in the docu and Larry King interview include results using real voters in real Indian elections, and US voters being tested on Australian election data that they had no knowledge or opinion about other than from search filtered data.

An investigation was published by The Wall Street Journal and based on more than 100 interviews, as well as what the Journal said was its own testing of Google Search. The findings are likely to provide more ammunition for critics

Among the findings, even though Google says in a company blog post that “We do not use human curation to collect or arrange the results on a page,” the Journal implies the company does exactly that. Often in response to pressure from governments worldwide, businesses, or a variety of interest groups.

According to the Journal’s sources, Google has also manipulated its search algorithms to favor big businesses — and that in at least one instance, did so to favor eBay, a major Google advertiser.


A separate Harvard Researcher produced a report in 2015 about Google acting badly
No problem - it was more about how Google and the media manipulate what we think and do.

The film was interesting as were the 2015 comments with Larry King particularly that the Google search results people read would at that time determine at least 25% of all the worlds elections results.

We dont even discuss if its ok that whoever controls Google controls much of our lives.

We wont even know after its happened because we mostly accept the search results and news we read as true so dont think there is another way.

It seems long past the time to wake up - we can see where the Google type control leads by looking at China and their thought control.
 
Jan 1, 2020
173
35
1,630
No problem - it was more about how Google and the media manipulate what we think and do.

The film was interesting as were the 2015 comments with Larry King particularly that the Google search results people read would at that time determine at least 25% of all the worlds elections results.

We dont even discuss if its ok that whoever controls Google controls much of our lives.

We wont even know after its happened because we mostly accept the search results and news we read as true so dont think there is another way.

It seems long past the time to wake up - we can see where the Google type control leads by looking at China and their thought control.
As the only Non- American on this site.I am British .It begs the question Who is Larry King? Ive never heard of him
 

adam

BANNED
Jul 2, 2020
183
30
730
Dr Robert Epstein's research is very helpful.

First to be clear he stated publically in 2020 he wanted a Biden victory and supported Clinton in 2016 however there are long term Google issues he has been reporting on for many years.

If you want to know more the documentary below from 59 minutes on interviews pro Democrat Harvard trained Phd psychologist Dr Robert Epstein, who works for an independent research group in California, focusing on how Google changes peoples' opinions.

View: https://youtu.be/0v6KBGr5IzY



Larry King interviewed Dr Robert Epstein about Googles power in 2015.

He said that setting aside any deliberate human bias that Google execs introduced to Google, the search AI will determine the outcome of at least 25% of the elections around the world because the election margins are very small


The same conclusions can probably be reached about the media generally - opinions are formed based on what people experience, read and watch which the media largely controls. This changes the business and political outcomes we live in.

Dr Epstein also says in an LA Times piece

“I have become a darling of conservatives, which is driving me crazy,” Epstein said. “But they love me because I am saying things they want to hear. People I am closer to politically don’t want to hear what I have to say.”

The LA Times article goes on to say

"Yet even some scholars who think the San Diego-based psychologist is wrong about the political impact of search engines — he believes bias built into Google’s processes could have cost Republicans three California congressional districts in the last election — have started paying attention to his detailed work on how voters respond to tens of thousands of search results."


Dr Epstein states he wants a Biden victory in a 2020 FOX news video interview linked below but his concern is that while he might like the outcome now there is no guarantee about who Google will support in the future. He states Google has worked with the Chinese Communist Party in controlling its population etc


Dr Epstein states that in the days before the 2020 election he had 700+ researchers testing Google in different ways. Some were set up as Democrat and others as Republicans etc. One simple example shows Googles deliberate negative and bias action - Googles home page showed voting reminder messages to some users but not to others - Democrat leaning researchers/voters were reminded to vote while Republicans received no such message until Dr Epstein outed Google for this. The next day all Google home pages reminded people to vote

It seems clear Google does not like Dr Epstein's work and senior figures in Google have made negative comments about him in public forums including Congress which can be easily found on line

However it is clear Google has abused its great power - the EU fined Google $2.7billion for manipulating search results under anti trust monopoly legislation


There is little doubt that Google is effective at delivering consumers and opinions as its data and services are heavily used and are reshaping the advertizing business space.
Google is also very politically connected with many people from Google working for the Obama Government or taking time off to work for Hilary Clintons campaign - including the head of the Google Ideas Division. This is seen across the big tech sector
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33saYOmwaUE


The LA Times article about Dr Epstein sets out differing opinions about his work and says other Phd researchers agree Google is doing something that could be very negative and implies few apart from Dr Epstein are watching or talking about it. Another link to a Slate article is very critical of Dr Epstein and his work.

The LA Times piece seemed objective in setting out a middle ground but did not report any whistleblower claims about Googles negative actions etc

It is hard to find independent research data about Googles actions - a USAToday Republican op ed lists issues with Google such as policies blacklisting sites which are removed for political reasons etc from search results etc.




The 10 minutes or so in which Dr Epstein talks in the docu are very interesting and shows how real the manipulation is. The docu says Dr Epstein's research uses real people and real data with control groups receiving right wing, left wing and mixed data to verify the impact of viewing the different data on the results.

What was very interesting about the research is that even people who saw the data was being manipulated changed their minds in favor of the manipulated results

As well as supporting Biden now Epstein says in the LA Times 2019 article he supported Hilary Clinton for President and is photographed with her in 2016 in the article

The research tests included in the docu and Larry King interview include results using real voters in real Indian elections, and US voters being tested on Australian election data that they had no knowledge or opinion about other than from search filtered data.

An investigation was published by The Wall Street Journal and based on more than 100 interviews, as well as what the Journal said was its own testing of Google Search. The findings are likely to provide more ammunition for critics

Among the findings, even though Google says in a company blog post that “We do not use human curation to collect or arrange the results on a page,” the Journal implies the company does exactly that. Often in response to pressure from governments worldwide, businesses, or a variety of interest groups.

According to the Journal’s sources, Google has also manipulated its search algorithms to favor big businesses — and that in at least one instance, did so to favor eBay, a major Google advertiser.


A separate Harvard Researcher produced a report in 2015 about Google acting badly
Larry King was a well respected interviewer.

Watch the ora.tv link above. Its the third link and titled Dr Robert Epstein.


It will also help you understand the context
 

adam

BANNED
Jul 2, 2020
183
30
730
There seems no real transparency about how human decisions are made to focus search engines etc or filter news.

Google and others intervened in the 2020 US elections one simple example is by Google using its home page to remind liberals to vote but not doing so for conservatives until after Google was publically outed over this.

This shows clear intent and any new filtering requires human intervention - ie the AI is updated by humans to filter out certain web sites news stories etc etc

Pro democrat - liberal researcher Dr Epstein sets out

“We also found what seems to be a smoking gun. That is, we found a period of days when the vote reminder on Google’s homepage was being sent only to liberals — not one of our conservative field agents received a vote reminder during those days.”
Epstein says that Google “backed off” after he went public with his findings. “They literally shut off that manipulation that night, and so for four days before the election they were showing vote reminders to everyone, finally.”

Dr Epstein who publically stated he objected to Trump as President and supported Joe Biden set out his research group found clear evidence of Google working against Trump

“First of all, we had 733 field agents in three key swing states this year: Arizona, North Carolina, and Florida, and we preserved more than 500,000 ephemeral experiences… That’s about 30 times more data than we got in 2016,” said Epstein.
“Google search results were strongly biased in favor of liberals and Democrats. This was not true on Bing or Yahoo. The bias was being shown to pretty much every demographic group we looked at, including conservatives…. Conservatives got slightly more bias in their search results than liberals did.

“The bottom line at the moment is that these manipulations, the ones that we’ve so far quantified, could easily have shifted at least six million votes in just one direction. That’s the bare minimum at this point, that I’m confident. The maximum we haven’t even begun to estimate that yet because we have so much data to look at.”


It also is clear that Hunter Biden and other news related to China etc was filtered to almost zero and disinformation allowed saying it was Russian propaganda etc

This is all now after the event being highlighted.

The problem is what happens when big tech is used in a way we dont like or dont even know about to manipulate us or support regimes like China or against popular opinion or free debate etc in the USA etc.

The old media is politically controlled and the internet has gone the same way.
 
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adam

BANNED
Jul 2, 2020
183
30
730
Interesting reply from Google in Jan 2020 rejecting pro democrat Phd internet researcher Dr Robert Epstein's findings on 2016 election and that Google used messages on its home page in a way it knew would get Democrats to vote.

Dr Epstein claimed that during the 2016 election just Google's 'Go Vote' display gave an 800,000 vote advantage to the Democratic Party. Other Google search result features contributed to around 2.6 million votes going to Hillary.

Google denied they would ever take any such action

However the 2020 election research results again showed how Google used its home page to send messages to Democrats to vote and this time they did not send the vote messages to Conseratives in 2020 until Dr Epstein highlighted this was going on in 2020 only 4 days before the election

Jan 2020 - Google denied Dr Epstein's allegations and said it never altered its search results as some elected conservatives now claim.

'This researcher's inaccurate claim has been debunked since it was made in 2016. As we stated then, we have never re-ranked or altered search results to manipulate political sentiment,' Google said at the time.

'Our goal is to always provide people with access to high quality, relevant information for their queries, without regard to political viewpoint,' the company added


However in Nov 2020 Dr Epstein sets out

“We also found what seems to be a smoking gun. That is, we found a period of days when the vote reminder on Google’s homepage was being sent only to liberals — not one of our conservative field agents received a vote reminder during those days.”

Epstein says that Google “backed off” after he went public with his findings. “They literally shut off that manipulation that night, and so for four days before the election they were showing vote reminders to everyone, finally.”

Dr Epstein who publically stated he objected to Trump as President and supported both Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton set out his research group found clear evidence of Google working against Trump

“First of all, we had 733 field agents in three key swing states this year: Arizona, North Carolina, and Florida, and we preserved more than 500,000 ephemeral experiences… That’s about 30 times more data than we got in 2016,” said Epstein.

“Google search results were strongly biased in favor of liberals and Democrats."



As I have said before the problem is what happens when big tech is used in a way we dont like or dont even know about to manipulate us.


Big tech has supported regimes like China against popular opinion and has been linked with some CIA activities and stopping debate in the USA etc that it objects to.

Big tech has its own agenda and it is too powerful to be allowed to filter the info we receive. Many people may like the results now but in the future we will be badly hurt as Google and big techs owners have interests or ownership of many businesses including
pharma and payday loans

"Google has itself invested heavily in LendUp" a payday loan firm. Google banned certain loan advertizing it is unclear if LendUp will be effected


 
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