Vehicles & global heating
- Thread starter Hollisman
- Start date
- Mar 19, 2020
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I was under the belief that carbon dioxide,, methane and especially water vapor were the drivers of rapid global warming. It seems logical that the exhausts from 1.2 B automobiles would likewise increase these gases and hence contribute to global warming. From the current, somewhat hysterical hype about SUV's, jet aircraft and things like cow farts also contributing to global warming, one has to wonder if some tipping point has not already been reached and the Earth will continue to warm beyond its natural warming cycle. Perhaps the real driver of global warming is too many people and their related lifestyles?
- Jul 29, 2021
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Every human contribution to global warming is our lifestyle. The overall impact shown by observation is ~1.5C for the last 50 years and ~2.0C during the last 150 years. Considering the stability of natural effects during this period.
Although, here are some specific periods that appear to have warmed or cooled faster than can be explained based on r natural variability during that period.
There are no accumulated observations of natural variability, which might be larger than we currently think.There seems no strong evidence for it.
Models for the short-term temperature variability might be approximately right. But for the long term observations are limited.
Hence, there is no confidence in the forecasts. Natural factors that affect the Earth’s climate: volcanoes, changes in solar activity may result in cooling rather than warming up.
Uncertainty remains due to the role of natural variability.
Although, here are some specific periods that appear to have warmed or cooled faster than can be explained based on r natural variability during that period.
There are no accumulated observations of natural variability, which might be larger than we currently think.There seems no strong evidence for it.
Models for the short-term temperature variability might be approximately right. But for the long term observations are limited.
Hence, there is no confidence in the forecasts. Natural factors that affect the Earth’s climate: volcanoes, changes in solar activity may result in cooling rather than warming up.
Uncertainty remains due to the role of natural variability.
While not being all knowing, I would add this to the discussion...
The whole CO2 determination hasnt been proven to show a connect beteeen CO2 and temperature....There may be a current rise in CO2, or not, but that may or may not be the cause...
As a point of determination, please consider...
The CO2 arguement centers around the production of said gas by mechanial combustion. Ie gas/diesel powder engines.
If that were true, the rise in temperatures would have started within the last two hundred years... Yes?
I can disprove that very simply...
Anyone ever hear of 'Doggerland'?
Dont know where it is? Find England. The area between England and Europe, is Doggerland. Six thousand years ago, the area was a fertile plane, which Europeans hunted and lived on. Even today, they are pulling up human made objects and buildings from the sea floor....
Consider as well...six thousand years ago...
The area west of Japan (sea of..), was dry land...again, villages are found at the bottom of the sea...
Yellow sea, off the coast of China... Same.
The mediterranean has cities at the bottom...
Indeed, almost every culture in the world has a flood myth....
Wonder why? The oceans have been warming for twenty thousand years. All those ice sheets are still melting...
Consider:. Sixty-five million years ago, the center of the US was under water.....
The evidence against human causation, is...staggering.
Now ask this...
Who benefits from having a crisis?
Follow the money
The whole CO2 determination hasnt been proven to show a connect beteeen CO2 and temperature....There may be a current rise in CO2, or not, but that may or may not be the cause...
As a point of determination, please consider...
The CO2 arguement centers around the production of said gas by mechanial combustion. Ie gas/diesel powder engines.
If that were true, the rise in temperatures would have started within the last two hundred years... Yes?
I can disprove that very simply...
Anyone ever hear of 'Doggerland'?
Dont know where it is? Find England. The area between England and Europe, is Doggerland. Six thousand years ago, the area was a fertile plane, which Europeans hunted and lived on. Even today, they are pulling up human made objects and buildings from the sea floor....
Consider as well...six thousand years ago...
The area west of Japan (sea of..), was dry land...again, villages are found at the bottom of the sea...
Yellow sea, off the coast of China... Same.
The mediterranean has cities at the bottom...
Indeed, almost every culture in the world has a flood myth....
Wonder why? The oceans have been warming for twenty thousand years. All those ice sheets are still melting...
Consider:. Sixty-five million years ago, the center of the US was under water.....
The evidence against human causation, is...staggering.
Now ask this...
Who benefits from having a crisis?
Follow the money
- Mar 4, 2020
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In the first place, we have seen NO global warming yet! We have an increase in CO2.....but the warming has not come. The small increase in temp that we do see, is nothing beyond the normal cyclic records.
People with empty lives need a threat, a danger to feel alive. It's sad.
Now for the good news. If we ever do see a dangerous increase in temp......we now have the cheap capability to sink heat directly into space. Without any special conditions or materials. And no energy input necessary to preform this action.
The threat of global warming has been nullified.
The danger is from some academic or politician using this capability.......when it is not needed.
Remember the threat of an ice age in the 70's? Remember the threat of peak oil?
We were going to run out of energy.
Academia is a false authority. A jr high school authority. With all the hormones.
And all the hysterical ignorance.
People with empty lives need a threat, a danger to feel alive. It's sad.
Now for the good news. If we ever do see a dangerous increase in temp......we now have the cheap capability to sink heat directly into space. Without any special conditions or materials. And no energy input necessary to preform this action.
The threat of global warming has been nullified.
The danger is from some academic or politician using this capability.......when it is not needed.
Remember the threat of an ice age in the 70's? Remember the threat of peak oil?
We were going to run out of energy.
Academia is a false authority. A jr high school authority. With all the hormones.
And all the hysterical ignorance.
Hayseed, Please read my post...the one before yours.
While I agree with you on most points, my post above disproves what you are saying.
Addendum
There are cycles, for sure. After volcanic erruptions, there is a cold snap...
Ie the little iceage...
Etc.
Weather is complicated.
While I agree with you on most points, my post above disproves what you are saying.
Addendum
There are cycles, for sure. After volcanic erruptions, there is a cold snap...
Ie the little iceage...
Etc.
Weather is complicated.
- Mar 4, 2020
- 690
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I will summarize my post.
Ever hear of a place called, "Doggerland"?
Find the British east coast...the European west coast?
The area in between. Thats Doggerland. Six thousand years ago, that was a savannah. There are villages at the bottom of the English channel....
The seas of Japan...between Korea and Japan...same..villages at the bottom.
Yellow seas, off the coast of China...same.
Off the coast of Egypt...same.
Ocean levels have risen over a hundred feet in in six thousand years.
Holland...Dikes... Why? Ocean level went up. They were trying to preserve their farmland.
With a timetable that long though, it puts it outside the Industrial revolution. Therefore, not caused by man or CO2.
Looking further back, 65million years ago, the center of the US was under water...which is where the "Great plains' formed, and why the farming is so good.
The question is how much of the caps will melt, and for how long....
But..
Not caused by man
It is universally accepted by the scientific community (as well as others) that CO2 is rising - The evidence is unquestionable.
On the CO2 connection with warming-
On the causal structure between CO2 and global temperature - Scientific Reports
We use a newly developed technique that is based on the information flow concept to investigate the causal structure between the global radiative forcing and the annual global mean surface temperature anomalies (GMTA) since 1850. Our study unambiguously shows one-way causality between the total...
www.nature.com
Are you suggesting that locomotives in 1820 are comparible with billions of vehicles, incresed industry and loss of forests n 2020?
The research is very detailed and shows Doggerland was a casualty of rising sea levels at the end of the ice age combined with land settlement from the weight of glaciers moving...
Doggerland’s lost world shows melting glaciers have drowned lands before, and may again
When scientists from Imperial College released a simulation of a tsunami, triggered by a vast undersea landslide at Storrega off the coast of Norway around 6000 BC, it probably came as a surprise to many…
theconversation.com
Who benefits from the crisis? tin foil companies .... Used to protect people by making into a hat or helmet to protect you and others.
CO2 rising...maybe. if so, there isnt any answer to causality.
Doggerland:. Wrong, sort of. The ice age ended 12k years ago. Doggerland was still there six thousand years ago.
If you wish to extend the reach of the ice age, to that time, then I put forward to you that the end of the Iceage is still affecting the weather.
The melting of the ice is also causing the land to rise.
1820s- You are being closed minded. My point, which you avoided, was that everything was warming...LONG BEFORE THE ADVENT of internal combustion engine.
You view that there is causality there, is not scientific...its emotional or dogmatic.
You of course can believe anything youd like, and post any link to your religous beliefs you like, but the reality is that there isnt any proof...
Shrug.. ask my friends from MIT
Doggerland:. Wrong, sort of. The ice age ended 12k years ago. Doggerland was still there six thousand years ago.
If you wish to extend the reach of the ice age, to that time, then I put forward to you that the end of the Iceage is still affecting the weather.
The melting of the ice is also causing the land to rise.
1820s- You are being closed minded. My point, which you avoided, was that everything was warming...LONG BEFORE THE ADVENT of internal combustion engine.
You view that there is causality there, is not scientific...its emotional or dogmatic.
You of course can believe anything youd like, and post any link to your religous beliefs you like, but the reality is that there isnt any proof...
Shrug.. ask my friends from MIT
Apart from countless scientific papers, or perhaps you are more educated and have more data than anyone else in the world.
Carbon Dioxide Concentration | NASA Global Climate Change
Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.
Global Monitoring Laboratory - Carbon Cycle Greenhouse Gases
The Global Monitoring Laboratory conducts research on greenhouse gas and carbon cycle feedbacks, changes in clouds, aerosols, and surface radiation, and recovery of stratospheric ozone.
gml.noaa.gov
In your world the ice age ended, and immediately all the ice went ... within minutes? hours? seconds?
How much and where and in your world will all continents rise together as if floating on water from melting glaciers?
Please pass on the email of your MIT friend and I will gladly ask them.
Your argument is, if something was warming 0.1deg/decade 5 million years ago... It is acceptable that it accelerates in years now?
I do like how the majority of scientists across every country with masses of data and modern powered computers that are accurately predicting an issue can be shot down by a handful of conspiracy theorists with no data and an opinion...
Democracy, where any genius can be out voted by two idiots,
- Jul 29, 2021
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Current days. The predictions fully rely on correct data collection and post-processing and cooperation.
Having NASA together with ESA, other national companies, and private companies, launches are active and directed to Earth surveillance with a good potential for effective data collection and post-processing.
The best precision of climate changes are presented for the last 150 years, showing direct human impact on global warming.
Technology evolution started an increased human impact on global warming. But at the same time we still have new technologies rising fast. For instance, solar power accumulation. Might have two major impacts:
1. Less fossil burning and reflections back to the atmosphere.
2. Probably more cooling natural effects influence presence, which is neglected while showing numbers of temperature rise trends due to human activities. Meaning, that we should count both with the climate change predictions.
Having NASA together with ESA, other national companies, and private companies, launches are active and directed to Earth surveillance with a good potential for effective data collection and post-processing.
The best precision of climate changes are presented for the last 150 years, showing direct human impact on global warming.
Technology evolution started an increased human impact on global warming. But at the same time we still have new technologies rising fast. For instance, solar power accumulation. Might have two major impacts:
1. Less fossil burning and reflections back to the atmosphere.
2. Probably more cooling natural effects influence presence, which is neglected while showing numbers of temperature rise trends due to human activities. Meaning, that we should count both with the climate change predictions.
Cow farts?
There are currently 33 million cows in the US.
150 years ago, there were over 60 million (buffalo)...
Roj5
Scientific papers?
Who paid for them to be published?
I can find many scientific papers that over the years, have been proven false.
Another observation you left out, was the fact that the med has villiages at the bottom, the yellow sea, and off the coast of Korea.
I guess you left that out because it doesnt fit your narrative.
You still havent answered my query as to the fact that you maintain "human" causality, but refuse to admit the world climate has been changing (heating) for over 12k years...
Come on, answer the question...
Scientific papers?
Who paid for them to be published?
I can find many scientific papers that over the years, have been proven false.
If Dogggerland was a casualty of continental rebound, as you say, shouldnt it be farther above sea level? It is on the same continental plate...It is universally accepted by the scientific community (as well as others) that CO2 is rising - The evidence is unquestionable.
On the CO2 connection with warming-
On the causal structure between CO2 and global temperature - Scientific Reports
We use a newly developed technique that is based on the information flow concept to investigate the causal structure between the global radiative forcing and the annual global mean surface temperature anomalies (GMTA) since 1850. Our study unambiguously shows one-way causality between the total...
Are you suggesting that locomotives in 1820 are comparible with billions of vehicles, incresed industry and loss of forests n 2020?
The research is very detailed and shows Doggerland was a casualty of rising sea levels at the end of the ice age combined with land settlement from the weight of glaciers moving...
Doggerland’s lost world shows melting glaciers have drowned lands before, and may again
When scientists from Imperial College released a simulation of a tsunami, triggered by a vast undersea landslide at Storrega off the coast of Norway around 6000 BC, it probably came as a surprise to many…
Who benefits from the crisis? tin foil companies .... Used to protect people by making into a hat or helmet to protect you and others.
Another observation you left out, was the fact that the med has villiages at the bottom, the yellow sea, and off the coast of Korea.
I guess you left that out because it doesnt fit your narrative.
You still havent answered my query as to the fact that you maintain "human" causality, but refuse to admit the world climate has been changing (heating) for over 12k years...
Come on, answer the question...
YOu have presented no evidence and any evidence presented to you is fake?
What narrative have I made? I am asking you for evidence but the typical denier will always spin it around so they never have to demonstrate their position... They read a conspiracy, so therefore it is true and all facts are lies.
Why go for 12k years... Here is an answer you can deny using millions.
Earth Hasn’t Warmed This Fast in Tens of Millions of Years
Chemical analyses of ancient sediments allowed scientists to put together one of the most comprehensive climate histories of the planet
www.scientificamerican.com
Wrong again...
Number of beef and milk cows in the U.S. 2022 | Statista
In the U.S., there have been approximately three times more beef cows than dairy cows each year since 2001.
www.statista.com
Correct.... In the past there were buffalo that typically migrated with land being allowed to naturally recover.
Now we have far more cows that this number under intensive farming and all the infrastructure/ transport to maintain.
- Jul 29, 2021
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The estimated percentage of human impact on the warming is between 95% to 100%, according to Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports.
The model of global climate change is a very complicated one because:
- many sources of information are used;
- greenhouse emissions wouldn’t be 100% correct, but close, including major sources over the Globe;
- aerosols impact on cooling is hard to be traced, because their influence on clouds able to repel the Solar heat back to space differs;
- clouds cover and snow/ice cover decrease albedo, these numbers have uncertainties;
- volcanic and tectonic natural activity has uncertainties;
- and so forth.
Yet,the human forces against observed warming make a correlation between actual warming and human impact:
en.wikipedia.org
The more we are able to measure and observe from space, the more accurate data will be.
The model of global climate change is a very complicated one because:
- many sources of information are used;
- greenhouse emissions wouldn’t be 100% correct, but close, including major sources over the Globe;
- aerosols impact on cooling is hard to be traced, because their influence on clouds able to repel the Solar heat back to space differs;
- clouds cover and snow/ice cover decrease albedo, these numbers have uncertainties;
- volcanic and tectonic natural activity has uncertainties;
- and so forth.
Yet,the human forces against observed warming make a correlation between actual warming and human impact:
Scientific consensus on climate change - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The more we are able to measure and observe from space, the more accurate data will be.
- Jul 29, 2021
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The means that will bring the most benefit for greenhouse gases reduction are aircrafts and spaceships. The alternative propellants and ecofuel is the key, though they may not be cost effective yet.
The production focus and economics should be changed in order to reduce emissions to zero till 2050, as a Global aim.
The production focus and economics should be changed in order to reduce emissions to zero till 2050, as a Global aim.
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