Why the Earth, Sun, and Universe are probably older than the Standard Model of Cosmology predicts.

Mar 27, 2020
I'll discuss these, but they are calculable so anyone who doesn't believe me can do the math for themselves.

Age of the Sun:

If you assume the Sun is a First Generation Star, and start with hydrogen to helium ratio equal to the background compositon of the Universe, which is 96% Hydrogen (Protium) and 4% Helium, then you arrive at a strange conclusion.

At the beginning of Hydrogen Fusion, the Sun's average rate of burning is "Near Zero" right? So presently, the Sun burns about 8 to 10% brighter per billion years, and in several billion more years is expected to run out of hydrogen fuel and eventually start burning Helium 4 fuel. However, if you assume the Sun started as 4% Helium and 96% Hydrogen (Plus some other trace elements) then you can calculate the average rate of burning of Hydrogen from ignition to present, and then calculate how long it would take to burn the amount of hydrogen that has already been burned. Fortunately for you, I have already done this, and I reached the conclusion that a "First Generation Sun" would need to be 27.4 Billion years old.

Now you may be thinking, "Wade, the Universe itself is only 13.8 Billion years old, so how could the Sun be twice as old as the Universe that contains the Sun?"

Well obviously I have more evidence to support my position, right? I already thought of that.

The Universe is Twice as old as the Standard Model, and here's why.

First Cosmic Age Argument:
Several years ago, on Phys.org, there was an article about a Galaxy which appeared to be older than the Universe itself, which I "seconded" after reading the evidence. Namely, the Galaxy appeared to be 11 Billion years mature, according to computer models, even though it was red-shifted in such a way as to suggest the light in the telescope left the galaxy 11 Billion years old, this would suggest the Galaxy was at least 22 Billion years old....yeah, older than the accepted age of the Universe.

Second Cosmic Age Argument:

Using round numbers, the Light Horizon of the Universe is thought to be approximately 15 billion light years radius in every direction. The farthest observable galaxies were 13.something billion light years away at the time light left them to travel to our telescope, but during that time, the galaxy has moved both in proper motion and space-time motion to a distance of over 46 billion light years distance, mostly because space-time is allowed to expand faster than the speed of light due to Dark Energy. However, before the Galaxy left the Light Horizon, it was moving an average of half the speed of light, which means it would take on average 27.6 Billion years for the galaxy to move from the point of the Big Bang to the point 13.8 billion light years away, where it should have been 13.8 billion years ago, and so on, which means the Universe must be at least 27.6 Billion years old, and probably more like 41.4 billion years old.....but for the sake of argument I'll stick with 27.6 Billion years old...

Now Cosmic argument suggests the Universe is 27.6 Billion years old.

The Sun as a First Generation Star suggests the Universe is 27.4 Billion years old.

It is not an accident that these two otherwise unrelated values come out as being virtually identical, and the only difference could be a matter of margin of error in the original data I used to do these calculations.

Thus I have every reason to believe the Sun is 27.4 Billion years old, and the Universe is 27.6 Billion years old.

How Old is the Earth?

Presently, Geologists WANT to use 6 Billion years as the age for the Earth. This value is derived from Super-Computer models running the four known force laws to determine the internal structure of the Earth. When comparing the computer model to seismic data, it is determined it would take at least 6 billion years for the primordial Earth to reach it's modern condition using only the 4 known force laws. However, we know of at least 3 unknown force laws too which the computer can't model yet: Dark Energy, Dark Matter, and Dark Flow. Anyway, you'll never find a 6 billion years old rock on the surface of the Earth, because it has been subducted into the Mantle by now, or else destroyed by erosion by now. I personally believe the Earth is actually 8 billion years old, but that's by Divine Revelation, which I can't claim to be able to prove yet at this time...but I can prove that the present text book age of the Earth is too young.

The only reason they don't use that 6 billion years value is they haven't been able to find rocks that old. The oldest Earth rocks ever discovered are certain multi-celled Eukaryotic fossils from Australia which are 3.8 billion years old, which were discovered a few years ago, which re-wrote the history books, previously biologists claimed multi-cellular life evolved from prokaryotes about a billion years ago. In reality, Eukaryotes are a completely different order of Creation than Prokaryotes, as they are not biochemically compatible. Eukaryote sand Mitochondria use a different type of Ribosome than Prokaryotes, which is why Broad Spectrum Antibiotics kill bacteria and other Prokaryotes and don't harm Eukaryotes nor Mitochondria. So the Atheists were just dead wrong and ridiculous to begin with. At any rate, the 4.56 Billion years figure doesn't come from Earth Rocks, that comes from a logical fallacy based on the fact Meteorite fragments are dated to 4.56 billion years old. Well, it is a logical fallacy to assume the Earth or the entire Solar System is the same age as the radioactive elements of the Asteroid field. Different planets or different asteroids could have been created at different times by different entirely unrelated processes.....the only reason the 4.56 billion years is used in text books and encyclopedias is again they can't find any Earth Rocks as old as the Computer models say the Earth should be, and so they just use the oldest thing "dateable" that they've ever discovered ON the Earth, which is a meteorite fragment. Now again, the Earth could be twice as old as the Asteroid Field, as I think it is....and that doesn't mean the other planets are all the same age either, they could have all been created at different times by different processes. For all I know, Mercury could be 27 billion years old, and Venus and Mars could each be 12 billion years old, and the EArth could be 8 billion years old, etc, especially if it turns out ot be true that the Sun is in fact a 27.4 Billion years old First Generation Star...

So those are my arguments, summary of conclusions:

Earth is 6 to 8 Billion years old.
The Sun is 27.4 Billion years old.
The Universe is at least 27.6 Billion years old. (It's not necessarily the case that the Cosmic Microwave Background should be as old as the Universe itself).

Again, if you don't believe me, just do the calculations I described, they are repeatable and testable.
Jan 1, 2020
I believe you - I couldnt do calculations anyway bcause I have what is called dyscalculia which means I have severe weak abilities to solve maths problems
Mar 27, 2020
I believe you - I couldnt do calculations anyway bcause I have what is called dyscalculia which means I have severe weak abilities to solve maths problems

The calculations aren't hard. All I did was take the average between zero burning and present day rate of burning for the Sun, and then calculate how long it would take to burn from 4% Helium to present composition. That turned out to be 27.4 billion years, which is conveniently almost exactly twice the accepted age of the Universe, which I already objected to for the reasons I cited above.
The oldest Earth rocks are about 4.6 billion years old**. The oldest fossils, found in Australia, are about 3.5 bilion years old. The presence of fossils in rocks indicates that the Earth was a suitable place for life when the fossils formed. This implies that the Sun was luminous at that time. We can't actually say exactly how long before the fossil formed the Sun was burning as it is today, but it does give us a lower bound.

What is meant by "luminous?" This means that the Sun was on or near the stable part of its lifetime called the "main sequence" more than 3.6 billion years ago. Viewing the Sun as a star on the main sequence is very useful and important for astronomers because they have a model called "The Standard Solar Model" that views the Sun, and stars like the sun, at stages in their life while they're burning hydrogen and converting that to helium. The model can be run forward and backward in time, and the astronomers can check the observable quantities in the model like luminosity, solar radius, composition, solar p-mode frequencies, and so on with our real Sun. They can stop the model at any time during its main sequence. If what we see from our Sun matches the quantities in the model for a specific age, then we have one more piece of information of what we think that the age of the Sun is.

One complication of checking the Solar Model with our real Sun is assessing the quantity of helium: the "helium abundance." This measurement is extremely difficult to obtain. According to the Dalsgaard article (see below), the solar spectrum is too complicated to accurately measure the helium abundance, so that one parameter has to be estimated (one infers the helium abundance by matching the observed solar radius and luminosity in the solar models). However it appears that this method affects the estimated age very little.

So, in essence, the Sun is approximately 4.57-5 billion years old. It started out as a protostar. Over time, it became what it is today: a main sequence star, with hydrogen fusion reactions. The Sun will stay in its current state for about another 4-5 billion years before it enters its red giant phase, when it swells to engulf the Earth. It will then turn into a white dwarf and slowly cool over billions of years while it's outer envelope slowly dissipates into the interstellar medium.

See two useful references for more detailed discussion:
  • An article entitled "The Current State of Solar Modeling" by J. Christensen-Dalsgaard et al. in the May 31, 1996 issue of Sciencetalks about the age of the Sun and the Standard Solar Model.
    And Chapter 8: The Origin of the Solar System in the book The Sun As Star by Roger Taylor, Cambridge University Press, 1997 describes the radioactive dating of meteorites and radiological and chemical evidence from the formation of the solar system.
** The Jack Hills are located ~800 km north of Perth, Western Australia, within the Archean Narryer Terrane. They became internationally known as the site of the world’s oldest crystals (See Compston and Pidgeon 1986; Wilde et al. 2001; Mojzsis et al. 2001).

Initial investigation at Mt. Narryer (~50 km southwest of Jack Hills) led to the discovery of a granulite-facies quartzite containing detrital zircons with an age ~4,150 Million Years Ago (Froude et al. 1983). Subsequent work on a greenschist facies conglomerate from Jack Hills (W74 site on Eranondoo Hill) led to the identification of two even older zircon grains with ages of 4,276 ± 12 Million Years Ago (See again Compston and Pidgeon 1986). A reinvestigation of zircons from that site identified one grain that recorded a 207Pb/206Pb age of 4,404 ± 8 Ma (Wilde et al. 2001), the oldest age obtained from any terrestrial material. Jack Hills’ zircons have continued to provide important information on the early Earth. This has included oxygen, lithium, and lutetium-hafnium isotopes. (See Wilde, Simon. 2014)

The oldest rock in the world is not from the Earth, but is a rock sample from the Moon, picked up during the Apollo 16 mission. The rock, known as Lunar sample 67215 is an anorthosite believed to be about 4.46 billions years old. Analysis of the rock shows that it comes from a relatively shallow depth in the Moon’s crust, which sheds some light on how the initial lunar crust was formed – this information also provides insight into the formation of the terrestrial planets. This rock is about 60 million years older than the ancient Jack Hill zircon 207Pb/206Pb.

Researchers believe that the age of the rock show that the lunar anorthosites formed during the early history of the Moon, most likely by crystallization from a magma ocean.

So it all fits together. The Sun is approximately 4.57-5 billion years old. The oldest rock we have found, from the Moon, is around 4.46 billion years old, while the oldest terrestrial zircon is 4.276 billion years old, with our oldest fossils being some 3.5 billion years old. The sun, the Earth and the Moon all coalesced from the same interstellar gas and dust cloud about 5 billion years ago.

Also, look into Bart J. Bok, the Dutch-born American astronomer known for his work on the structure and evolution of the Milky Way Galaxy and for his study of “Bok globules,” small dark clouds observable against the background of bright nebulae. Bok suggested that these globules may be condensed clouds of interstellar gas and dust in the process of contracting into stars.

Similar systems can be seen coalescing today in The Pillars of Creation in the Orion Nebula thanks to the Hubble telescope (photo below).


  • pillars of creation.jpg
    pillars of creation.jpg
    83.4 KB · Views: 1
Last edited: