Question Why is a 90 percent effective vaccine needed for a disease with a 99.6 percent recovery rate

ROG

Aug 29, 2020
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1000 people get covid
996 recover
4 die
what if those 4 had the vaccine ?
If those 4 recovered then great but how do we know who they are?
There is also the growing issue pf long covid
 

Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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1000 people get covid
996 recover
4 die
what if those 4 had the vaccine ?
If those 4 recovered then great but how do we know who they are?
There is also the growing issue pf long covid
Your math is only partly correct because the CDC has already said that only 10,000 people have died from covid, the others died with covid. Also 7700 people die every day in the USA before covid. Now if you can find the adjusted total death totals in the USA that reflect the total daily death total per day this would show how many more people are actually dying because of this disease. However you will not find these numbers because they reveal exactly how many people are actually dying of covid.

Simplified in 2017 2,813,503 Americans died of all causes. Note this does not reflect covid deaths at all because covid was not here. What we need to determine exactly how many Americans died of covid is to see how many more died in 2020 from all causes. When this number is made public we will know the exact death rate which I predict will be trivial.

PS Over 1300 people die in the USA every day from the effects of tobacco. So why is it legal for 500,000 Americans to die every year from tobacco
 
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Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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Excess deaths over say a 5 year average are the best numbers to go by
I would use 50 years and turn the actual death rate into a percent as the population is a variable. However 5 to 10 years would be most rational. I am glad that you seem to agree, and what you will find is that this number will be hidden or determined to be irrelevant when we know that mathematics is the great equalizer
 

ROG

Aug 29, 2020
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50 years is way too far back
Think of advances in modern meds
The last 5 or poss 10 years is more accurate
 

Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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50 years is way too far back
Think of advances in modern meds
The last 5 or poss 10 years is more accurate
If you have the 50 years though you can see developing trends, you could also use any combination of years, such as all 50, 1, 2, 3 ,4,5,10,20 ect These stats could also be used to show those trends. Also the Pfizer vaccine by Pfizer's own admission is not said to prevent the disease, they claim that it prevents symptoms in 90 percent of patients. Rather strange when 85 percent of people, at a minimum already have no symptoms. So perhaps the vaccine is preventing symptoms in 5 percent of people max? They will not claim it to be a cure because after widespread administration people will still die, so they can not expose themselves to that liability
 
Mar 6, 2020
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Your math is only partly correct because the CDC has already said that only 10,000 people have died from covid, the others died with covid. Also 7700 people die every day in the USA before covid. Now if you can find the adjusted total death totals in the USA that reflect the total daily death total per day this would show how many more people are actually dying because of this disease. However you will not find these numbers because they reveal exactly how many people are actually dying of covid.

Simplified in 2017 2,813,503 Americans died of all causes. Note this does not reflect covid deaths at all because covid was not here. What we need to determine exactly how many Americans died of covid is to see how many more died in 2020 from all causes. When this number is made public we will know the exact death rate which I predict will be trivial.

PS Over 1300 people die in the USA every day from the effects of tobacco. So why is it legal for 500,000 Americans to die every year from tobacco
I agree that tobacco is horrible for you, but if we made it illegal there would be a Prohibition-era illegal trade that continues. People who are addicted will break the law to get tobacco, and all such a law would do would inflate the prison population. Thankfully, smoking has been less and less prevalent, so over the years the last people who still smoke will naturally be removed from the population.
 

Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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I agree that tobacco is horrible for you, but if we made it illegal there would be a Prohibition-era illegal trade that continues. People who are addicted will break the law to get tobacco, and all such a law would do would inflate the prison population. Thankfully, smoking has been less and less prevalent, so over the years the last people who still smoke will naturally be removed from the population.
So you do not care about the 500,000 Americans that die from tobacco every year. LOL you probably want heroin legalized too because this would end the illegal trade.

Yawn
 
Jul 24, 2020
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Also the Pfizer vaccine by Pfizer's own admission is not said to prevent the disease, they claim that it prevents symptoms in 90 percent of patients. Rather strange when 85 percent of people, at a minimum already have no symptoms.
Where did Pfizer make this admission, and where is the 85% figure taken from?
 

Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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Where did Pfizer make this admission, and where is the 85% figure taken from?
Common knowledge if you look.

Coronavirus: Key questions remain over Pfizer vaccine's effectiveness and lasting immunity | HeraldScotland

The ‘90% effective’ measure means that the vaccine prevented symptoms of Covid-19 in 90% of volunteers who received the vaccine compared to the placebo.

Dr Fauci warns that early COVID-19 vaccines will only prevent symptoms - not block infection | Daily Mail Online

And it's actually 86 percent that have no covid symptoms

86 percent of the UK's COVID-19 patients have no symptoms (news-medical.net)

But but but CNN said

Any more questions?
 
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Jul 24, 2020
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Common knowledge if you look.

Coronavirus: Key questions remain over Pfizer vaccine's effectiveness and lasting immunity | HeraldScotland

The ‘90% effective’ measure means that the vaccine prevented symptoms of Covid-19 in 90% of volunteers who received the vaccine compared to the placebo.

Dr Fauci warns that early COVID-19 vaccines will only prevent symptoms - not block infection | Daily Mail Online

And it's actually 86 percent that have no covid symptoms

86 percent of the UK's COVID-19 patients have no symptoms (news-medical.net)

But but but CNN said
Taken from that article:

"We also do not know whether the Pfizer vaccine prevents transmission as well as disease - or even whether it only prevents symptoms of infection, rather than infection itself. "

If the vaccine works as intended, (as early trial data indicated) there should be a strong neutralising antibody response, that would stop infection. I do not see Pfizer admitting that the vaccine will not prevent infection? To your other point about asymptomatic infection rate, a recent article in Nature reported that the true rate of asymptomatic infection may have been overestimated and is closer to 20% based on a meta-analysis of multiple studies:

What the data say about asymptomatic COVID infections
 

Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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Taken from that article:

"We also do not know whether the Pfizer vaccine prevents transmission as well as disease - or even whether it only prevents symptoms of infection, rather than infection itself. "

If the vaccine works as intended, (as early trial data indicated) there should be a strong neutralising antibody response, that would stop infection. I do not see Pfizer admitting that the vaccine will not prevent infection? To your other point about asymptomatic infection rate, a recent article in Nature reported that the true rate of asymptomatic infection may have been overestimated and is closer to 20% based on a meta-analysis of multiple studies:

What the data say about asymptomatic COVID infections
Would you buy a car if the salesman said.

If the car works as intended you will be able to drive it home? Would you trust your life to that car?

Lack Of Transparency And Covid-19 Vaccine #HumbleHolisticDOC - YouTube

The fact is that Fauci admitted that these vaccines will only prevent symptoms and not the disease. LOL I would actually like an explanation as to how that process happens in the first place?

No wait I know, as 86 percent at least already have no symptoms and 99.6 percent who do catch covid recover anyway.

LOL but but but CNN said
 
Jul 24, 2020
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Would you buy a car if the salesman said.

If the car works as intended you will be able to drive it home? Would you trust your life to that car?

Lack Of Transparency And Covid-19 Vaccine #HumbleHolisticDOC - YouTube

The fact is that Fauci admitted that these vaccines will only prevent symptoms and not the disease. LOL I would actually like an explanation as to how that process happens in the first place?

No wait I know, as 86 percent at least already have no symptoms and 99.6 percent who do catch covid recover anyway.

LOL but but but CNN said
Youre assuming that the vaccine will not prevent infection absent any statement to that effect, when it seems more likely that it does given the low occurrence of symptoms in the pool of vaccinated trial participants -and also considering that it induced a strong neutralising antibody response in the early phase trial.

The Fauci link you provided doesnt 'admit these vaccines will only prevent symptoms and not the disease'. In fact he said [and note the date]:

"The primary thing you want to do is that if people get infected, prevent them from getting sick, and if you prevent them from getting sick, you will ultimately prevent them from getting seriously ill,' Fauci said at Yahoo Finance's All Markets Summit.

'If the vaccine also allows you to prevent initial infection, that would be great. [But] what I would settle for, and all of my colleagues would settle for, is the primary endpoint to prevent clinically recognizable disease.' "

An effective vaccine should do both as the body's vaccine-primed antibody response to virus detection will be neutralisation such that the virus cannot infect cells and start replication and onward transmission.
 
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Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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Youre assuming that the vaccine will not prevent infection absent any statement to that effect, when it seems more likely that it does given the low occurrence of symptoms in the pool of vaccinated trial participants -and also considering that it induced a strong neutralising antibody response in the early phase trial.

The Fauci link you provided doesnt 'admit these vaccines will only prevent symptoms and not the disease'. In fact he said [and note the date]:

"The primary thing you want to do is that if people get infected, prevent them from getting sick, and if you prevent them from getting sick, you will ultimately prevent them from getting seriously ill,' Fauci said at Yahoo Finance's All Markets Summit.

'If the vaccine also allows you to prevent initial infection, that would be great. [But] what I would settle for, and all of my colleagues would settle for, is the primary endpoint to prevent clinically recognizable disease.' "

An effective vaccine should do both as the body's vaccine-primed antibody response to virus detection will be neutralisation such that the virus cannot infect cells and start replication and onward transmission.
I am not assuming anything as I know nothing about the vaccine to assume. I merely reported what Pfizer claimed, something that makes no sense in the first place.

I do know that no flu vaccine has ever prevented the current strain of the flu, and I also know that the people who get the flu vaccine get the flu at a higher percentage than those who do not.

Are you also aware that people who got the flu vaccine are 36 percent more likely to get covid-19?

No you had no clue did you?

Influenza Vaccine: Military Study Shows 36% Higher Odds Of Coronavirus, 2017-2018 (disabledveterans.org)

But but but, you can believe whatever you hear and see on TV. I do not
 
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Jul 24, 2020
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I am not assuming anything as I know nothing about the vaccine to assume. I merely reported what Pfizer claimed, something that makes no sense in the first place.

I do know that no flu vaccine has ever prevented the current strain of the flu, and I also know that the people who get the flu vaccine get the flu at a higher percentage than those who do not.

Are you also aware that people who got the flu vaccine are 36 percent more likely to get covid-19?

No you had no clue did you?

Influenza Vaccine: Military Study Shows 36% Higher Odds Of Coronavirus, 2017-2018 (disabledveterans.org)

But but but, you can believe whatever you hear and see on TV. I do not
The flu vaccine is not the one being considered, but your referencing it is telling of what i assume to be an ideological/political perspective on the vaccine (maybe all vaccines). Most of your claims thus far have been shown to be inaccurate, and the above post contains further falsehoods on the flu vaccine, that I do not care to discredit. Ultimately no-one is forcing you to take the vaccine so just dont take it i guess.
 
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Finch

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Nov 22, 2020
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The flu vaccine is not the one being considered, but your referencing it is telling of what i assume to be an ideological/political perspective on the vaccine (maybe all vaccines). Most of your claims thus far have been shown to be inaccurate, and the above post contains further falsehoods on the flu vaccine, that I do not care to discredit. Ultimately no-one is forcing you to take the vaccine so just dont take it i guess.
The flu vaccine is totally relevant because people who were gullible enough to get the flu vaccine are 36 percent more likely to get covid-19. This is a fact, so what diseases will the people who get the covid-19 vaccine get or get at a higher rate. Furthermore Pfizer is not saying that their vaccine will prevent the disease but merely prevent symptoms.

LOL, look get on line and get shot up. Are you aware that vaccines cause billions of dollars of damage and that their is a special vaccine court set not to pay victims but to hide the injuries that vaccines cause from the general public

Federal vaccine court quietly pays out billions | Salon.com

Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award - CBS News
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Most of your claims thus far have been shown to be inaccurate, and the above post contains further falsehoods on the flu vaccine, that I do not care to discredit. Ultimately no-one is forcing you to take the vaccine so just dont take it i guess.
Russia claims 95% effective vaccine with Sputnik V (1). This one is also based on a viral vector like the Oxford vaccine, and is also more stable than the mRNA viruses.

Assuming this is a safe product, it adds more to the bag of vaccines to stop the spread of the virus, and prevent further mutations. Preventing further mutation is essential to preventing more lethal strains from developing, and/or prevent the current one from evading immunity due to mutation. It does not matter if the immunity is from an infection or the vaccine. The virus, left to spread, will eventually evade all immunity, and return in some form. We don't want to find out what form that might be.

For those wondering about the value of a vaccine: The virus is lethal to many people. The vaccine is not. It will prevent fatal infections.

Whatever numbers you wish to quote, there is no doubt that a near-zero death rate from the vaccine is better than the considerable rate we are suffering without it.

This is not even a close call.


1. https://www.politico.eu/article/sputnik-v-vaccine-has-95-percent-efficacy-says-russia/
 
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Finch

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Russia claims 95% effective vaccine with Sputnik V (1). This one is also based on a viral vector like the Oxford vaccine, and is also more stable than the mRNA viruses.

Assuming this is a safe product, it adds more to the bag of vaccines to stop the spread of the virus, and prevent further mutations. Preventing further mutation is essential to preventing more lethal strains from developing, and/or prevent the current one from evading immunity due to mutation. It does not matter if the immunity is from an infection or the vaccine. The virus, left to spread, will eventually evade all immunity, and return in some form. We don't want to find out what form that might be.

For those wondering about the value of a vaccine: The virus is lethal to many people. The vaccine is not. It will prevent fatal infections.

Whatever numbers you wish to quote, there is no doubt that a near-zero death rate from the vaccine is better than the considerable rate we are suffering without it.

This is not even a close call.


1. https://www.politico.eu/article/sputnik-v-vaccine-has-95-percent-efficacy-says-russia/
86 percent of those infected with covid have no symptoms so they do not suffer. 99.6 percent of those with covid make a full recovery. I had covid and I had mild symptoms. Pfizer also does not claim that their vaccine prevents covid, they claim that it prevents symptoms though you may still get sick

Useless, why would I get vaccinated for a disease that I and my entire family already had?
 
Sep 11, 2020
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So you do not care about the 500,000 Americans that die from tobacco every year. LOL you probably want heroin legalized too because this would end the illegal trade.

Yawn
The Prohibition issue is not that a deletorius substance should be made illegal but is a persons freewill being trampled - or in more Politically Correct terms - a persons right to choose has been violated. It is difficult to legislate against stupidity - better to be sure people are informed of facts surrounding substances effects, uses and possibility of addiction. Heroin, meth, etc are substances that endanger one's life with even a single use, let alone contamination by dealers so should remain illegal or at the very least strictly controlled. Side note, many substances, including tobacco and alcohol, have medicinal uses - and as with any medication its side effects and possibilities for injury must be weighed against advantageous effects. Making something illegal makes it impossible for physicians to legally prescribe it. As in the marijuana usage.
 
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