Why are deaths from coronavirus so high in Italy?

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Mar 16, 2020
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My husband's a physician. Reading articles from Italy, they are out of ventilators. If 20 % of the infected need supplemental oxygen, and Italy has run out of supplies to support that as they say they have, then it would be expected that 40% of those in acute respiratory distress would die. You can google ARDS and see what that entails. Its only where countries have the medical staff and supplies that death rates are at 1%.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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●Reason I'm posting? hoping folks here might help me survive this.
Wish, just for a sec that ppl would stop the 'only a flu' no big deal posts, I'm in west Montana USA,
we're lucky to have had the gift of time (our 1st death was yesterday, bless him, 3-26-20 & just over100 cases, I'm 61 (Lupus & COPD/live alone) am a 'realist' so know I'm fairly screwed, just a matter of when and how bad when i get this , ( was a LVN prior to my diagnosis, so have old school med knowledge , can follow along with the bio's & not get too lost), have horses, critters so have survival knowledge too, our state's in shelter in place basically, several days back went into town, got bare bones essentials, and made the rest of my essentials (pickens are very slim at stores), most everything doubled in price, have a rural home, closest physical human is 100 yards as the crow flys, am aware of wind direction, and know or feel that this virus is partially airborne etc, Ive had the prevnar 13 pneumonia vaccine & last years flu shot SO wonder if anyone seen any data on that? or sequencing that it might help lessen the inflammatory affect? I have kept past meds while weeding out what worked on my Lupus (rancher folks are creative when it comes to ad-libbing necessities etc) my PCP got me some prednisone 20mg, its on standby as PRN, and I have basic supportive OTC stuff, bought some Chlorhexidine Diacetate concentrated Virucide/t.... so now its just a waiting game, am open to any med advice what is new symptoms, suggestions that might help once contracted, all ears..
Thx in advance
Paula in Montana
 
Jan 2, 2020
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It seems that people have forgotten about the food habits and about breast feeding.

Why it is so deadly in Italy. Also according to another article in livescience.com, it say the median age in Italy is 47.3 in Italy and that many of the deaths are in the age of 80 or 90 years old people. But all these are only statistics.

My focus here is on two things,

  • Breastfeeding
  • Natural edible oils

Breastfeeding

According to https://ijponline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13052-018-0572-z, after 6 months, feeding the babies is just 5.5%. Breast Milk of human mothers are known to have two important fatty acids that develop our immune system, Lauric Acid and Capric Acid. So after 6 months the children are not getting these fatty acids. Thus when they grow older, as per my ordinary understanding, they can become more susceptible to infections like from virus.

In Sri Lanka breastfeeding after 6 months is 71.3%. In India after 6 months it is 55%.

Natural Edible Oils

In Italy people mostly should be using Olive Oil for their food, adding to salads, tempering, frying etc. Over here in South Asia, that too mainly in South India and Sri Lanka people use Coconut Oil. I am tabulating below the data (percentages)about these two oils.

Fatty AcidSunflower OilPeanut OilOlive OilCoconut Oil
Lauric Acidnilnilnil47.7
Capric Acid0.02nilnil5.5

It could well be that breastfeeding and use of Coconut in food can be two important factors. Please see in this article the benefits of Coconut Oil.

https://www.ecowatch.com/benefits-of-coconut-oil-2645151397.html?rebelltitem=4#rebelltitem4
 
Mar 28, 2020
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This is not a very good article.
It missed one of the obvious reasons why Italians have infected each other so quickly. Body contact! They are one of the cuddliest nations on the planet. Anyone who has hung out with them knows how touchy and feely they are, even old men walk down the street holding hands no matter their orientation. It's just friendship. They sit on the bus and lean all over each other with their arms around each other. Then you have the hugging and kissing and large families hanging out with much physical love. The large aging population also has lots of aging friends so they are very social playing Bocci Ball (sorry if that is not spelled correctly) and chess and whatnot.
The weather helps this happen although there would be similarities in Spain, but not to the same extent.

It's hard to take any article seriously that hasn't noticed this massive societal difference in Italy which differentiates it to many European places.
yes body contact and the fact that there are a lot more elderly people in northern Italy and the Italians are very family oriented and live together from grans to kids.
the virologists have scientifically tested the strain in Italy and it is the same as in china, it has not mutated or changed significantly.
the statistics of deaths by age and sickness back this up it is very similar to the rest of the world.
 
Mar 28, 2020
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You know why italy has so many deaths despite not a very large population?? It has UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. Think about that folks!Ive been there 4x and i know for a fact( a friend was seriously hurt years ago, I know the hospitals are just god awful. italy is a 3rd world country with lower middle class everywhere. I have seen it first hand. My friend almost died because the hospitals and health care system stinks. if he was in the US at the time with cutting edge equipment he would be fine with no risk to himself. You cant have universal health care in a poor country thats dependant on tourism and expect TOP notch health care. Money doesnt grow on olive vines. Half of your pay check goes to the govt and nobody knows where the money is going. (not to the services you expected) MAFIA most likely. Italy is extremely corrupt they have the highest death rates by far in ALL OF europe! They are letting 60 years die on the street because they cant accomodate the beds. No money/tech./ or manpower.Thats another reason why so many deaths.Spain also has universal health care and is just as poor. Thats why.

There is a saying about Italy "Its a nice place to visit, but you wouldnt want to live there."
 
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Feb 10, 2020
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You seem to be missing the point, no social distancing. These families live all together. no retirement homes. Most gran and grandads live lower level of home. rest of family n other two floors. Unfortunately the numbers are due to being together. Second that by the way it has not been lowed down by social distancing all cases come in at the same time. All countries will have the same if you do not follow the rules.. 2m at all times..
 
Mar 29, 2020
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Because they are all SMOKERS. Does no one get that? Italy, Spain, France... they smoke like crazy and, by the time they are over 65, they have already totally damaged their lungs. They are an at-risk population just waiting for something to happen to them, and this virus came along and decimated them.
 
Jan 2, 2020
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yes body contact and the fact that there are a lot more elderly people in northern Italy and the Italians are very family oriented and live together from grans to kids.
the virologists have scientifically tested the strain in Italy and it is the same as in china, it has not mutated or changed significantly.
the statistics of deaths by age and sickness back this up it is very similar to the rest of the world.
Do Spanish people too have similar habits as with Italian people? In Spain too the impact of virus is very high, and even in France it is going bad.
As I see, due to the low percentage of breastfeeding and the traditional food not having fatty acids like Lauric Acid or Capric Acid, they are far more prone than others. Yes, the average of Italians is 47.6 years quite high compared to other nations due to higher percentage of older people. But lack on the fatty acids from childhood can be one reason, though I am not saying it has been determined.
 
Mar 30, 2020
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My Uneducated guess is that it mutates and becomes stronger or IF IT IS MANMADE bioterrorism, maybe they unleashed a larger amount of the virus in Italy
Italy already has an annual Morbidity rate of 0.01%, pretty much the highest in the world, this means that out of their 60M population, around 1,644 die DAILY. However, most likely the majority die during Cold and Flu season, so it's probably close to 822 daily during the summer and 2565 daily during the Winter. (The USA is around 20% lower at 0.008%). The reason their population is so old is because over the past couple of decades, they've barely had any kids - Pretty much repeating the mistakes of the Roman Empire. I remember reading an article last year on how they were talking about closing the Maternity Ward in Nocosia, Italy because there was a single child born in like 2 weeks. Then again, who can blame Italians for not wanting to have kids in a country that hasn't seen any economic progress in at least 2 decades, and saddled with so much debt, both public and private that it's hard for anyone to move ahead.
 
Mar 31, 2020
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Here's an explanation for you I've been waiting for for quite some time now:


It's very easy. Italians are bad at math. Their actual death rate is around ~1.6%, it's just a matter of reporting.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.
“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.
 
Mar 31, 2020
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From what I have read, Italy's population has the oldest median age. For those unfamiliar with the term, Median age is the age that divides a population into two numerically equally sized groups - that is, half the people are younger than this age and half are older. It is a single index that summarizes the age distribution of a population. 46 is the median age in Italy's case, which makes it one of the oldest, if not the oldest nation on earth. As the virus seems most effective on the older generation, Italy is suffering the most. Plus the fact they are a very tactile race.
But Germany is just slightly younger, and death rates are extremely low!
 
Mar 31, 2020
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Here's an explanation for you I've been waiting for for quite some time now:


It's very easy. Italians are bad at math. Their actual death rate is around ~1.6%, it's just a matter of reporting.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.
“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.
Maybe yes, but in my opinion the reason is more obvious from reports from Italy: they have neither enough beds, nor personnel or ventilator machines, even oxygen is sometimes missing, so they take away aids from the old and give it to younger people. Italy has only 40 % intensive care beds compared with Germany, Spain has only 1/3, UK even has only 1/4 ! And with beds comes personnel and equipment! They should ask the government wha health care spendings habe been cut so much over the last 20 years.
 
Mar 31, 2020
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One reason for sure is the fact, that they have allowed soccer games, skying and public events to continue until end of February. A flood of new cases is te result.

Secondly, another reason is obvious from reports from Italy: they have neither enough beds, nor personnel or ventilator machines, even oxygen is sometimes missing (!), so they take away aids from the old and give it to younger people. Italy has only 40 % intensive care beds compared with Germany, Switzerland has a bit less, Spain has only 1/3, UK even has only 1/4 ! And with beds comes personnel and equipment! They should ask the government why health care spendings habe been cut so much over the last 20 years.
Now Spain, Switzerland and soon UK hospitals are almost collapsing. Of course, in such a chaotic situation death rate rises extremely. e.g. other patients and doctors get infected, the more wsince often basic protection is not available.
It is interesting to note, that all "western" societies did not act in a timely and effective fashion when the chance existed to stop the epidemic. Also none of them is well prepared, although experts did warn for 2 decades. Asian countries like Taiwan, South-Korea, Singapur, HongKong and even Japan were much more successful. They had prepared, warned by SARS and MERS, for such a case for years.
 
Mar 31, 2020
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The aging population discussion has a ceiling. From 50-70 are the most affected due to men and women (men specifically) not taking care of the health of their hearts, respiratory systems and blood flow mechanics. A 70+ person doesn't become that old just because they have a natural disposition to live longer, theybtake care of themselves and get constant medical check-ups. These are common deaths in every influenza-type outbreak. If you take a look at every goverments health website's, you quickly realize that the information is consistent
 
Jan 2, 2020
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Italy already has an annual Morbidity rate of 0.01%, pretty much the highest in the world, this means that out of their 60M population, around 1,644 die DAILY. However, most likely the majority die during Cold and Flu season, so it's probably close to 822 daily during the summer and 2565 daily during the Winter. (The USA is around 20% lower at 0.008%). The reason their population is so old is because over the past couple of decades, they've barely had any kids - Pretty much repeating the mistakes of the Roman Empire. I remember reading an article last year on how they were talking about closing the Maternity Ward in Nocosia, Italy because there was a single child born in like 2 weeks. Then again, who can blame Italians for not wanting to have kids in a country that hasn't seen any economic progress in at least 2 decades, and saddled with so much debt, both public and private that it's hard for anyone to move ahead.
If the annual morbidity rate is 0.01%, then out of population of 60 million is it 1,644 per day or 16.4 per day?
Second This Covid-19 is a RNA Virus, as I read about its molecular structure and behavior it’s way of action is slow in the beginning but as it take over on ACE-2 the action stimulates and accelerate.
RNA can be destroyed by Lauric Acid as it dissolves the outer lipid layer. But only in Coconut Oil there is Lauric Acid. So why not authorities use it?
 
Mar 31, 2020
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If the annual morbidity rate is 0.01%, then out of population of 60 million is it 1,644 per day or 16.4 per day?

RNA can be destroyed by Lauric Acid as it dissolves the outer lipid layer. But only in Coconut Oil there is Lauric Acid. So why not authorities use it?
They have been testing lauric acid however the test are either inconclusive or subject to peer review it seems. But it is proven to be antiviral in general.


 
Jan 2, 2020
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Surprising why Italian and Spanish and French authorities are not giving Coconut Oil, specially since Olive oil does not have Lauric Acid or Capric Acid both of which are avilable in Coconut Oil. Even Sunflower Oil or Peanut Oil or Corn Oil do not have these fatty acids. Coconut OIl can destroy the virus.
 
Apr 2, 2020
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My Uneducated guess is that it mutates and becomes stronger or IF IT IS MANMADE bioterrorism, maybe they unleashed a larger amount of the virus in Italy
As viruses mutate (evolve) they tend to become less virulent. They have a better chance of surviving and propagating if they don't kill their hosts...
 
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Apr 2, 2020
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The reasons why the # of cases and # of deaths are so high in Italy are fourfold:

#1 Italy signed a memorandum of understanding with China to take part in its giant Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) trade project. Because of that, thousands of people from China were coming into Italy even after the threat of COVID-19 became known

#2 As a result of #1 and not taking the threat seriously, they acted too late to stop all travel from China and close its borders.

#3 A recent study found that 95% of the people in Italy who died had one or more underlying health issues that put them at high-risk of contracting the virus. This is also why the case count was so high.

#4. Italy's government-run health care system is awful and a lot worse than in other countries with similar systems.
Also a huge population of Chinese workers in the fashion industry -- which is concentrated in northern Italy. Lots of travel between China and this specific region of Italy--where the outbreak was also concentrated.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-workers-who-assemble-designer-bags-in-tuscany
 
Apr 1, 2020
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Deaths from the new coronavirus in Italy have soared in recent days, with a death rate of 5%. Here's why that rate is so high.

Why are deaths from coronavirus so high in Italy? : Read more
One other ideal, it seems the only patients that are at significant risk to die are those who develop the acute respiratory syndrome where the lungs are so infected they can no longer absorb the oxygen the body needs to survive. Respirators can help with this, but even then it could go either way.

Seems there are two main ways to acquire the virus, one is where when we are too close to a contagious person and can directly inhale shed airborne droplets deep into our lungs. The other is the more indirect route whereby contaminated objects including our hands and possibly food carry the virus to susceptible tissues in our mouth, nose, or eyes.

Wonder if direct inhalation has a higher incidence of acute respiratory syndrome than the more indirect routes of transmission? Populations that don't do social distancing well could then possily have higher death rate.
 
Jan 6, 2020
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Deaths from the new coronavirus in Italy have soared in recent days, with a death rate of 5%. Here's why that rate is so high.

Why are deaths from coronavirus so high in Italy? : Read more
Most likely something peculiar about the way doctor's are treating critical patients is enhancing the death rate. Possibilities to be inspected would include, but not be limited to: refusal to administer CYP2D6 promoter drugs such as barbiturate and dexamethasone in favor over inhibitory drugs such as Prednisone (Solu-Medrol) and benzodiazapines, or administering those 2D6 promoters only concommitently with strong 2D6 inhibitors on the excuse that excessive liver enzymes might damage the liver. Increased liver enzymes increase survival in critical COVID-19 Patients and recoverable liver damage is a relatively small price to pay. There have been... rumors... that some doctor's have been honoring contracts with pharmaceutical companies with extremely illegal clauses forbidding the use of certain potentially life-saving medications on pain of losing bonus payments and even being sued for breach of contract... But those... rumors, refer primarily to NYC from where I sit and can only be inferred as possible for Italy. I note that under circumstances in which a doctor knowingly risked and sacrificed patients lives in order to fulfill a pharmaceutical companies contract with them would be a serious felony offense in the U. S. And might be worthy of a trip to Neuremberg in Italy. I hope these... rumors, are untrue and exaggerated, but NYC and Italian death rates for intubated patients argue otherwise.
 

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