The coronavirus did not escape from a lab. Here's how we know.

Page 10 - For the science geek in everyone, Live Science breaks down the stories behind the most interesting news and photos on the Internet.
May 4, 2020
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why do you automatically assume it's a distraction.
I swear I bet we can take flat eathers in a spaceship and have them stare out of the damn window bring them back to earth and they'll still say it's flat.
This is very similar reasoning here and we're witnessing it all come about!
Like the holocuast deniers...for crying out loud back in ww2 germany when the atrocities were taking place they already started the campaign to claim it was fake.
That's like what's happening here.
for the conspiracy kooks NOTHING EXISTS RIGHT?
No moon landing, no planes hit towers, no one was shot at sandy hook. etc
Y'all live in an IMAGINARY WORLD
If the internet had existed during the bubonic plague and during the 1918 spanish I swear you mofos would have said that was an engineered bacteria and virus!
Maybe we would have, but now we have PROOF that viruses are created. Here is the study in 2014 and 2015 where American and Chinese researchers performed a gain of function study to alter the spike protein to attach directly to the ACE 2 receptor for the purpose of skipping over an animal to human transmission to go straight to the human with the stated purpose of creating an epidemic.

Click this link to read
 
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I agree. No one ever said this virus was made in a lab. People said the virus was naturally occurring, was being studied in the lab in Wuhan. The story is that they were testing animal transmission of the virus. The dead infected animals were then sold in the Wuhan dead animal market instead of being destroyed.
There was a gain of function study in 2014 and 2015 to do EXACTLY what this virus is doing-create an epidemic by altering the spike to target ACE2. They CREATED a virus that would skip an animal and go straight to humans on purpose with the goal of an epidemic. Horseshoe bat virus
Click this link to read
A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
 
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That paper doesn’t refute what I said, it simply indicates the virus is likely not a lab construct or genetically modified. This doesn’t mean it was accidentally released from a lab. What exactly don’t you understand?
This is just NOT true. There was a gain of function study in 2014 and 2015 to do EXACTLY what this virus is doing-create an epidemic by altering the spike to target ACE2. The purpose was to bypass an animal and go straight to an epidemic. Click the link below to read

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
 
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Why are you lying? there are scientific papers some of which are linked that SAY they took a bat coronavirus and created a chimera....Shi Zhengli look up her published works before you call me out. Get your facts straight mate!!
Here is the study. They did this!
There was a gain of function study in 2014 and 2015 to do EXACTLY what this virus is doing-create an epidemic by altering the spike to target ACE2. It was to see if they could make an epidemic.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
 
May 4, 2020
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Great article. Thanks for sharing. I believe this is the most likely scenario. Check this out, this is gold
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
There was a gain of function study in 2014 and 2015 to do EXACTLY what this virus is doing-create an epidemic by altering the spike to target ACE2. The goal was to see if an epidemic could be started. Where is Baric? Where is Li? Why are they not being questioned? It’s all such a sideshow...

Click this link to read

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
 
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Obviously 'manmade' is one thing, 'escaped from a lab' something else. Amazing how determined people are to rule out the latter. Here's a credible article on that possibility:
Science writers bring the whole field into disrepute when they state with such certainty things that simply aren't known.
This is just NOT true. There was a gain of function study in 2014 and 2015 to do EXACTLY what this virus is doing-create an epidemic by altering the spike to target ACE2. This is well known in research circles.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
 
May 4, 2020
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E
Just because there is no definitive sign of molecular biology tools being used to edit the genome, doesn't mean virus isn't from the lab or isn't engineered.

The fact that viral receptor evolved out of random chance to have such high affinity to human ACE2 doesn't make sense.

Best explanation is that in the Wuhan laboratory, Sars-COV from 2003 outbreak was co-cultured with HEK293 cell line (a popular laboratory human cell line, which coincidentally express high level of ACE2) to breed infectivity via natural selection. Then resulting Sars-COV2 was ordered to spread by Chinese government to the general population of Wuhan.
exactly what happened. Read about it here
There was a gain of function study in 2014 and 2015 to do EXACTLY what this virus is doing-create an epidemic by altering the spike to target ACE2. click the link below



A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
 
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I agree. The outbreak was from the market "they say" in mid/late Dec, and this outbreak only came to light because they can no longer hid it, so how do you know the actual time when this virus appeared. Anyways where is Dr. Ai Fen who was warned before this whole thing started before the whistle blower? If its natural mutation due to structures of the back bone, I need clarity, Rna modification synthesis process can happen right? We do that for our mRNA synthesis but it have a short life span. So with the right slicing in the strain, it can mutateinstead of doing on the back bone, before the S strand was 30% and L strand was 70% and because of human intervention the number is changing. Sound's a like a short life spand. Besides China CDC with held all their data til early march, so sad that all these Doc and Scientist trying to figure out what are they are dealing with, people are dying faster than they can keep up. Data for 4th is no longer irrelevant, thats why we are finding out more than before of this down play virus. Now that this virus have travel all over the world, why is that now young healthy adults in their 20s are dying and a teen the other day?
Call these people who created it and ask them how to fight it. There was a gain of function study in 2014 and 2015 to do EXACTLY what this virus is doing-create an epidemic by altering the spike to target ACE2. click the link below

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
 
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See the article at AT: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/the_wuhan_virus_escaped_from_a_chinese_lab.html
Nobody said (except for wild conspiracy theorists) that the virus was made in the lab. However:
1) the lab in Wuhan was working on such viruses,
2) lab workers have been caught previously selling experimental animals in the nearby “wet market” for spare cash, including bats.
3) the Wuhan “wet market” was the epicenter of the disease, as far as we can tell.
America was working on a virus with Chinese is 2015.
The url is here. click the link.

[/URL]
 
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As others have said, this article is misleading and certainly not scientific. The entirety of their argument against the idea of the novel corona virus not being lab made can be summed up like this, "They wouldn't have done it that way." That is opinion being dressed in a scientist's lab coats.
 
May 4, 2020
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As others have said, this article is misleading and certainly not scientific. The entirety of their argument against the idea of the novel corona virus not being lab made can be summed up like this, "They wouldn't have done it that way." That is opinion being dressed in a scientist's lab coats.
Well here is the proof that they did it. And could have released it
 
May 4, 2020
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We know it's not engineered, because's it's a 96% genetic match to the original SARS virus, and we know that comes from a Bat virus. We don't know where the other 4% of the virus genome came from, but basically SARS Coronavirus 2 is a direct Genetic descendant of the original SARS virus. It just mutated a few times and lay dormant for almost two decades in some animal somewhere, before eventually mutating back into a human form.

So yes, the full scientific name is "Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2" because it is a direct 96% genetic descendant of SARS.

It wasn't engineered in a laboratory, as it's unlikely anyone besides perhaps ONE man in the world knows enough about viruses to have done such a thing, and he's a Chinese American who's trying to engineer a "Universal Vaccine" to the flu, so I highly doubt he'd be immoral enough to engineer SARS Coronavirus 2 even if he could. Immoral people tend to be too stupid to invent bio-engineering techniques. He has engineered a "Perfect flu strain" for the purpose of demonstrating that a vaccine could be created even for that, but he then immediately destroyed the sample after proving a vaccine could be created even for that, the purpose being a Universal Vaccine needs to kill even the worst imaginable flu strain. His goal is a "once in a lifetime" vaccine for the flu which will kill all future flu strains.

Anyway, SARS 2 is more genetically related to HIV/AIDS than it is the flu. SARS/SARS 2 is an RNA Retrovirus which attacks the immune system. This is why interferon and certain other HIV/AIDS anti-virals appear to work on SARS Coronavirus 2, at least to some extent.

====

By the way, the flu mutates between humans and animals all the time. There are literally at least 64 families of flu viruses in any given year, and in any given year we now vaccinate for four flu strains that are predicted to be the most virulent each year. This year, the vaccine didn't take well, and the H1N1A strain mutated in an unpredictable way, so the vaccine was mostly useless against that strain. the H1N1A strain is usually the most deadly strain among humans in any given year, but not always, but the vaccine always contains an H1N1A strain and three other strains predicted to be bad for that year.

Anyway, just because SARS mutated a few unpredictable times since it was first discovered doesn't suggest it was bio-engineered by anybody. That's simply ridiculous, and again I doubt anybody is smart enough to engineer a SARS strain virus. It's simply beyond human comprehension at this point, and probably always will be. There are over 3000 RNA genes in SARS/SARS 2 and we understand like literally one or two of them.....even after 100 years we only understand a handful of the genes that make the Flu work, so obviously nobody understands SARS/SARS 2....

*
If engineering a virus were as simple as an evil person wanting to do that, then every evil dictator in the world would have already done that anyway, and obviously they haven't. When world governments make bioweapons they basically work with biological agents that already exist in nature, such as anthrax, they don't engineer something from scratch, because nobody is smart enough to do that, and it's unlikely any human will ever be smart enough to engineer a retrovirus even a million years from now...

Again, evil people tend to be too stupid and not dedicated enough to bio-engineer anything anyway. Evil people tend to be lazy and steal other people's work, or example, rather than doing the work themselves.
How is this the only comment here with any actual sense?

To genetically manufacture something like COVID-19 would have taken hundreds of years, at the very least.

Researchers would have had to specifically edit every single genome, with millions of failures, to get anywhere close to a functional virus, much less one as contagious and fatal as COVID-19.

To compare it to reverse engineering a video game map is like...comparing complex gene editing to a video game map. It should be pretty obvious the silliness in comparing the two, but I guess some people here need that pointed out.

Like wadedanielsmith said, the researcher who "made" a coronavirus in 2015 has spent his life dedicated to eradicating the flu and is also American. Furthermore, the virus he "made" is nowhere near as complex as the COVID-19 virus.

Also, for all of you going on about the lab in Wuhan, Wuhan is a city of over 11 million people, one of the nine largest cities in China, the largest in Central China. In no way was the lab "down the road" from the wet market.

It would be like saying a virus emerging out of Ohio was engineered because Ohio State University does virus research and is in Ohio.

Research labs tend to be located in populous cities, and contagious viruses are more likely to develop and spread in populous cities, especially in subtropical climates like Central China where flu outbreaks happen year-round.
 
May 5, 2020
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Has anyone tried to expose living bat tissue or pangolin tissue to COV-SARS-2?

I get that it would not be a local species of bat or pangolin, so the results would be for information only. (Tigers and dogs have been infected by at least one variant, so having the exact same species may or may not matter.) If there is no proliferation of the virus in the suspected origin's tissue, then it's not from that... uh... (how close are species and genera and families when immunity is involved?). If there is fast proliferation, then I would attribute that to an adapted-to environment for COV-SARS-2.
 
May 5, 2020
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How is this the only comment here with any actual sense?

How is "It just mutated a few times and lay dormant for almost two decades in some animal somewhere before mutating back into a human form." sensible? That's like saying influenza variants hide in chicken flocks for year before moving back into humans.

Saying "It's been mutating regularly and keeps attacking humans until their immunity falls or a mutation allows reinfection." is much more sensible, especially since the revised statement reflects the randomness of adaption by mutation and known human immunity issues. The revision requires no hand-waved hint of intent, and no mysterious avoidance of a possible transmission source.

We know that bats and civets and humans have had corona viruses that were multi-species. We also know that some corona viruses don't seem to spread to humans. (Like the corona virus variants mentioned in "Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1993 Jan;23(1):1-16.") We are not at a point where we can say "X avoided us for a while, but now attacked".
 
May 4, 2020
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Saying "It's been mutating regularly and keeps attacking humans until their immunity falls or a mutation allows reinfection." is much more sensible, especially since the revised statement reflects the randomness of adaption by mutation and known human immunity issues. The revision requires no hand-waved hint of intent, and no mysterious avoidance of a possible transmission source.

We know that bats and civets and humans have had corona viruses that were multi-species. We also know that some corona viruses don't seem to spread to humans. (Like the corona virus variants mentioned in "Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1993 Jan;23(1):1-16.") We are not at a point where we can say "X avoided us for a while, but now attacked".
That's pretty much how I interpreted what OP meant by "dormant": it didn't achieve a mutation that would allow human infection until recently. I think you're taking your own unfavorable interpretation of what OP said and attacking that as a strawman when that's probably not at all what OP meant.

Also, the topic of viral and antigenic evolution is a whole other topic, which scientists are still debating to this day, and I don't think we're gonna solve it here in this forum.
 
May 5, 2020
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That's pretty much how I interpreted what OP meant by "dormant": it didn't achieve a mutation that would allow human infection until recently. I think you're taking your own unfavorable interpretation of what OP said and attacking that as a strawman when that's probably not at all what OP meant.

Also, the topic of viral and antigenic evolution is a whole other topic, which scientists are still debating to this day, and I don't think we're gonna solve it here in this forum.
I'll agree as I have been rather hair-trigger, recently. I'll try to be less assumptive, going forward.
 
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May 8, 2020
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"If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness,"

This is a specious argument. A new coronoavirus might be constructed from a backbone of an existing virus known to the lab in which the construction occurs but not yet published in the literature.

Furthermore , it might be done without the intent of creating and deploying a pathogen but rather as part of gain of function research for the purpose of understanding how lethal wild viruses might become under the right circumstances.

So, you cannot dismiss the entire "man-made" hypothesis on the basis that someone creating a pathogen would invariably start from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness - that may not have been purpose of the research - to create a new pathogen from a known pathogen. The purpose may have been to see how easily novel pathogens can be created from viruses not thought to be pathogens. If that is your purpose, the very last thing you would do is to select, as your backbone, a pathogen that is already known to cause illness.

As it happens, the closest known relative to SARS-COV-2 is wild virus known to the Wuhan Lab (RaTG13) for 7 years prior to the publication of the full sequence (it was collected in Yunnan in 2013 and partially documented by earlier papers (RaBtCoV/4991 (KP876546)) and fully documented in 2020 (RaTG13 (MN996532.1))). The fact that RaTG13 was known to the Wuhan Lab for 7 years (it was collected in 2013) prior to the full sequence being published is entirely consistent with (if not proof of) SARS-COV-2 being man made and irrespective of the intent of the synthesis.

I need to state that I don't know if SARS-COV-2 was man made, I am not even sure that I believe that it is, but if it isn't I want to see absolutely sound and rigorous rebuttals of the evidence that it might be from disinterested specialists in the field. Do anything less and the reputation of the scientific enterprise as a whole will be dragged into this whirlpool.
 
Feb 16, 2020
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[QUOTE = "JamesWilliams56, publicación: 5926, miembro: 2511"]
En el artículo LSE comienza con el título:
" El coronavirus no escapó de un laboratorio. Así es como lo sabemos ".
No es muy científico afirmar saber algo cuando la mayoría de los hechos sobre sus orígenes no se conocen y hay otras personas científicas eminentes que dicen lo contrario.
[/CITAR]
Todos estos comentarios me hacen dudar de la verdad,solo con evidencias reales y científicas estaré algo seguro y recordando al racionalista Rene Descartes .Dudarê siempre de muchas cosas, pensare lo que digan y escriban los científicos porque existo y sobrevivo para seguir viendo y oyendo a los humano, de los pasajes y acontecimientos de la ciencia, con sus verdades, misterios o mentiras.
 
Dec 4, 2019
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Doing a little research today verifies that China was responsible for this pandemic. The are plenty information to disprove this article, as their are interviews Chinese scientists that were reporting the exact opposite of what this article claims.
Please provide references to the research that you cite, and the interviews. People taking hearsay without verifying, then quoting and amplifying is how fake news and conspiracy theories spread.

China definitely screwed up the response and hid their cases and deaths through "creative" cause of death reporting. But they definitely lack the expertise to create a virus with no traces of it being modified - if they were that advanced, believe me, we'll all be speaking Chinese right now.

Some people allude to a conspiracy theory saying that the virus was natural but escaped from the lab. If the researchers did find this virus in nature, with the potential to infect humans, they would have rushed to publish, and there would be a vaccine in the works right now. The conspiracy theorists point out that the nearest population of horsehoe-nosed bats is 900km from Wuhan (far too distant for a bat to fly)... so, next time I order an Argentine beef steak in Germany, I will definitely argue with the waiter that it is too far for a cow to walk.
 
Feb 10, 2020
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That's pretty much how I interpreted what OP meant by "dormant": it didn't achieve a mutation that would allow human infection until recently. I think you're taking your own unfavorable interpretation of what OP said and attacking that as a strawman when that's probably not at all what OP meant.

Also, the topic of viral and antigenic evolution is a whole other topic, which scientists are still debating to this day, and I don't think we're gonna solve it here in this forum.

can you help me?

How do strains change?
There are three known strains which have mutated 70 times.
But how can one cause show three strains?
 

Hey

May 18, 2020
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A persistent coronavirus myth that this virus, called SARS-CoV-2, was made by scientists and escaped from a lab in Wuhan is completely unfounded. Here's how we know.

The coronavirus did not escape from a lab. Here's how we know. : Read more
Sooo, that addresses direct genetic manipulation? What about using natural selection through cross contaminating different animals in a lab and then testing on humans or human cells? The necessary mutations the virus needs to create the receptor-binding domain it requires to attach itself to human cells could be garnered. Yes, nature is smarter than humans. However, for decades humans have been using natural selection hybridizing plants and animals through selective breeding and cross pollination practices to create desired features. Theoretically speaking, using your information, it is possible to influence the genetic adaptations of viruses in the creatures you mentioned, bats and pangolins. One could effectively hybridize this virus, through natural processes, to be more virulent and able to widely distribute through a human population. Thus, hiding human manipulation via natural selection. What keeps a lab from using nature to mimic natural selection, especially since viral adaptation/mutation occurs at a highly rapid rate. This is a highly probable consideration since viruses like influenza, the common cold, measles, etc., mutate from year to year. I find it too coincidental that where there is a lab in Wuhan, in the same area the covid-19 outbreak originally occurred, that it occurred sans human influence. Not to mention, if I can think of it, so too can the scientists possibly involved.
 
An interesting take on how the Virus started and general up to date news can be found on The Independent News website. I don' t think we will every truly know "Who" actually started it, especially as it is likely anyone directly involved has probably passed away from it.


The above page, provides some interesting up to date facts, and well worth a read.
 
can you help me?

How do strains change?
There are three known strains which have mutated 70 times.
But how can one cause show three strains?
This is something that might help you, discussing the Strains etc.
 

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