I am no expert but this may be of interest and pertinent to your question.what would the discovery of a tachyonic particle mean for the field of physics?
more.......The Higgs field was a tachyonic field before spontaneous symmetry breaking. All theories that involve tachyonic fields are cases of spontaneous symmetry breaking. The Higgs mechanism is an example of spontaneous symmetry breaking and hence also an example of a tachyonic field at the beginning of the Universe. Nov 12, 2019
Just because scientists have discovered a particle doesn't mean they know all its properties.
1.6 x 10-22 seconds: That, according to theory, is the lifetime of the Higgs boson, one of the most sought-after particles in the subatomic world. This time is so short that tens of trillions of Higgs bosons might live and die before the light from the device you’re using to read this reaches your eyes.
Physicists are zeroing in on this lifetime in the real world. Poring over data from CERN’s Large Hadron Collider (LHC), scientists have narrowed down the Higgs’ lifespan to something around that 1.6 x 10-22 figure. The scientists were able to do so thanks to data from the CMS, one of the LHC’s detectors. Their work is a major advance–and it’s a sign that, nearly a decade after the Higgs boson’s discovery, there is still quite a bit to learn about the particle.
I was rereading this thread and it occurred to me that Max Tegmark addressed the acquisition and emergence of properties as a result of certain patterns and pattern densities.Hey fellas, after 100 yrs of particles, they are still looking for a "mass" particle. What does this tell you? It tells me that our modern science still.....can not discern what "mass" is.
I understand but it is only the pattern that is measurable and acquires properties over and above the sum and properties of the constituent parts?So the patterns are a result, not a cause. The cause is the electrical and physical tuning of the dipoles. And only certain tunes can be played.
I am always intrigued by the beautiful patterns that emerge from dynamical systems.Chaos theory is an interdisciplinary scientific theory and branch of mathematics focused on underlying patterns and deterministic laws, of dynamical systems, that are highly sensitive to initial conditions, that were once thought to have completely random states of disorder and irregularities. Wikipedia
Music of the spheres (strings) ...i.e. "relational values".A particle is a pure tone, which is modulated with a wobble. A dipole is two part harmony. Atoms and molecules are a chorus. A spectrum. These tunes, harmonies and spectrums have been constant since the beginning. The exact same songs. Same tunes. One permanent jukebox with a fixed library.
Does that not suggest a universal generic mathematical potential, what David Bohm called the "enfolded order"?This fact alone implies, that randomness, probability and chaos does not exist with nature.
At what point is something no longer physical? One can say that a ratio or quantity is a physical object, but would that not be a semantic trick?So there is a fundamental order. It's a ratio. A ratio of physical field balance. If the ratio was a math entity, we could make that ratio at will. BUT that ratio, that relationship, is NOT mathematical, it's physical. It's selective and discreet......NOT mathematical.
Oxford Dictionarythe quantitative relation between two amounts showing the number of times one value contains or is contained within the other.
Human symbolic mathematics is just a tool to explain everything we know about physics.Math can only inventory mass and energy, math can not explain or narrate mass and energy. Math is just a tool.
And "charge" is a value, no?Besides, energy and mass are properties, not entities. The only physical entity in this universe is charge, and the EM field from it.
I agree with that but how does this chaotic EM field operate?That's all physicality is. That's all that's needed for all this to exist.
All physical descriptions in science are symbolized by mathematically codified descriptions of regular and recurring atomic and molecular patterns and patterns are mathematical objects.Chaos theory is an interdisciplinary scientific theory and branch of mathematics focused on underlying patterns and deterministic laws, of dynamical systems, that are highly sensitive to initial conditions, that were once thought to have completely random states of disorder and irregularities. Wikipedia
The belief that mathematics is the surest path to the truth about the universe because the latter is at bottom mathematical has been very influential in Western thought. It goes back to Pythagoras’s assertion that “All is number,” or, as Aristotle paraphrased it, “The principles of mathematics are the principles of all things.” It is the rationale behind Plato’s insistence that no one should enter his Academy without knowledge of geometry.
You just cited several mathematical properties in relation to the fundamental dynamical structure of spacetime.Hayseed said:
A small helical circumference modulates(wobbles) the rotation of the ring. One rotation of the ring can possess many rotations of the helix of the circumference.
And in reference to Pythagoras’s discovery of the mathematical ratios underlying pitch, such that doubling the length of a string on a musical instrument produces a note an octave lower, has resonated long and loud through human consciousness. Galileo’s assertion that “The book of nature is written in the language of mathematics” has been a guiding principle of science since the scientific revolution to which he contributed so much.
The idea of the universe as a gigantic computer, and the belief that everything (including conscious experience) is information that is either itself digital or can be digitized without loss, is but a recent manifestation of Pythagoreanism.
You deny that it is even possible that the universe has a mathematical aspect to it.But, the changing patterns are a direct result of a change in the dimensions, density and motion in the fundamental dipole structure. The structure of the dipoles change length, size, shape, density and spin rate with temperature. They are just like quantum steps and stable at only certain dimensions. There is a range of these dimensions for each state.
No, I don't want to find anything.For instance. Ratio. You want to find a common divisor. A number relationship between the two quantities. Some think it has meaning. What about a ratio in which the common divisor, is constantly changing?
Until recently we had no access to pico scale events.One hundred years and we can't draw an electron and still have no narrative for mass. With math leading all the way.
Why Teach Symmetry?By looking at symmetry in a broader context, students can see the interconnectedness of mathematics with other branches of knowledge. For these reasons, many mathematicians today feel that the mathematical study of symmetry is worthwhile for general education students to explore
Symmetry is found everywhere in nature and is also one of the most prevalent themes in art, architecture, and design — in cultures all over the world and throughout human history.
Symmetry is certainly one of the most powerful and pervasive concepts in mathematics.
In the Elements, Euclid exploited symmetry from the very first proposition to make his proofs clear and straightforward. Recognizing the symmetry that exists among the roots of an equation, Galois was able to solve a centuries-old problem.
The tool that he developed to understand symmetry, namely group theory, has been used by mathematicians ever since to define, study, and even create symmetry.
But cosmologists insist that the mathematics of the universe are not just conceptual, but are the result of observation of the appearance of certain regularities when conditions consist of similar values.I would say that mathematics is the science of skilful operations with concepts and rules invented just for this purpose. The principal emphasis is on the invention of concepts. Mathematics would soon run out of interesting theorems if these had to be formulated in terms of the concepts which already appear in the axioms.
But you are speaking in mathematical terms. I am not arguing for human maths. Human mathematics is a codified system of symbolic representation of the interactive behaviors of generic relational values that create unique or recurring patterns, i.e. a form of generic mathematical processes.Furthermore, whereas it is unquestionably true that the concepts of elementary mathematics and particularly elementary geometry were formulated to describe entities which are directly suggested by the actual world, the same does not seem to be true of the more advanced concepts, in particular the concepts which play such an important role in physics. Thus, the rules for operations with pairs of numbers are obviously designed to give the same results as the operations with fractions which we first learned without reference to “pairs of numbers.”
Am I correct in equating the irrational number of "pi" with its "rational" application to circles from infinitely small to infinitely big?The rules for the operations with sequences, that is, with irrational numbers, still belong to the category of rules which were determined so as to reproduce rules for the operations with quantities which were already known to us.
I totally agree. It is an essential property of spacetime geometry.To start with, Mathematics does not have a clearly defined, universally accepted definition. However it is safe to say that anything that studies the interaction between quantities, variables, structure, and change, is mathematics. Mathematics is not a tangible thing, but actually an abstract concept.
Here is where I disagree.Other civilizations have made other ways of expressing mathematics, and if we ever run into alien intelligence, it is likely that they will use a different system than we do.
But the system is not the thing. This is because mathematics is the expression and quantification of basic logical concepts, and then it builds on those logical concepts to form increasingly complex concepts. It is, however, entirely a logical progression.
The confusing thing is that even though absolute logical proof is impossible as per Münchhausen’s Trilemma, it is still usually pretty easy to determine if a logical thread is valid or not, particularly in mathematics.
Mathematics is the most fundamental type of logic possible (in physics anyway), and therefore it is easy to reason that mathematics is the best way of expressing the universe.
But if we choose to ignore the murky waters of elementary logic, mathematics becomes the language of the universe simply because it has to be.
There is no simpler, more fundamental way of expressing the universe than through the basic ideas of equality and inequality, which in turn lead to the concept of quantification, which lead to the concept of value and numbers (to expressed levels of inequality), and once we have numbers, the rest of mathematics seems to bloom from all around us.
But again, the system we use to describe mathematics and mathematics itself are two completely different things.
imho, that is not a valid question.Do you believe that the pattern that was emitted, is the same atomic pattern when not emitting?
I agree.Math helps us understand the world — and we use the world to understand math.
I agree and mathematics hones those cognitive and logical skills.Understanding patterns aid in developing mental skills. In order to recognize patterns one need to have an understanding of critical thinking and logic and these are clearly important skills to develop.