Surprisingly warm water found on underside of Antarctica's 'Doomsday Glacier'

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There is only one Math, one Physics and one Chemistry, whether or not they are being applied usefully or not, is irrelevant. The Laws of Physics never change, no matter where or when you are, in the universe!
There is a difference between classical physics and quantum physics make a note. Before you get in a huff you to define what applied science constitutes and what hard science constitutes.
 
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There are several aspects which leads me to question the theory that humans are mainly responsible for the observed global warming.

Firstly, there is the well-known lead-lag disparity between the rising the surface temperatures and the CO2 curves, the latter lagging the former, rather than the other way around.

Secondly, the CO2 proportion in the air is minuscule which in the past (from ice-core samples) has been much higher, as it varies over eons. Due to the very low density of the atmospheric gases, their low specific heat (retention capacity) and low thermal trans-conductance into the oceans makes the transfer of heat to warm the oceans tiny.

So, where is this extra heat to warm the oceans coming from? One possible answer could be that the earth’s mantle is warming up due to increased (cyclic) volcanic activity from the molten plumes rising from the earth’s core. Such convection plumes are thought to circulate from radioactive decay and stored latent heat from earth’s creation. Another cause could be from increased solar wind activity which causes more charged particles to hit the earth at the magnetic poles and induce greater currents in its core which could also affect the terrestrial magnetic field which seems to be waning and heading for a possible (magnetic) pole reversal. Increased heating of the earth’s core might also happen due to the magnetic region of the milky-way our solar system is drifting through and thereby interacting with the solar system’s and earth’s magnetic field.

So, there may be many factors why our climate is warming up. We as humans can clean up what local mess we create, but to say that we can control the climate is a bit far fetched. But it is a good way for governments to keep raising eco-taxes from willing masses while ignoring what is actually happening.
 
There are several aspects which leads me to question the theory that humans are mainly responsible for the observed global warming.

Firstly, there is the well-known lead-lag disparity between the rising the surface temperatures and the CO2 curves, the latter lagging the former, rather than the other way around.

Secondly, the CO2 proportion in the air is minuscule which in the past (from ice-core samples) has been much higher, as it varies over eons. Due to the very low density of the atmospheric gases, their low specific heat (retention capacity) and low thermal trans-conductance into the oceans makes the transfer of heat to warm the oceans tiny.

So, where is this extra heat to warm the oceans coming from? One possible answer could be that the earth’s mantle is warming up due to increased (cyclic) volcanic activity from the molten plumes rising from the earth’s core. Such convection plumes are thought to circulate from radioactive decay and stored latent heat from earth’s creation. Another cause could be from increased solar wind activity which causes more charged particles to hit the earth at the magnetic poles and induce greater currents in its core which could also affect the terrestrial magnetic field which seems to be waning and heading for a possible (magnetic) pole reversal. Increased heating of the earth’s core might also happen due to the magnetic region of the milky-way our solar system is drifting through and thereby interacting with the solar system’s and earth’s magnetic field.

So, there may be many factors why our climate is warming up. We as humans can clean up what local mess we create, but to say that we can control the climate is a bit far fetched. But it is a good way for governments to keep raising eco-taxes from willing masses while ignoring what is actually happening.
That was my whole point in the original question. Your last paragraph says it all. We can clean up our own mess but to control is far fetched is correct. Throw a question at you. What year in past history due to climate change did the economic structures of the known world, where you had multiple civilizations collapse?
 
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That was my whole point in the original question. Your last paragraph says it all. We can clean up our own mess but to control is far fetched is correct. Throw a question at you. What year in past history due to climate change did the economic structures of the known world, where you had multiple civilizations collapse?
I can’t recall from documented history when this occurred. There have been recorded events in the recent past where volcanic eruptions (such as Santorini in the Mediterranean, Krakatoa in Sumatra/Java and Lakkii in Iceland) caused famine and crop failures. But a simultaneous collapse of multiple civilisations due to climatic change in undocumented after the last ice age.
 
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I can’t recall from documented history when this occurred. There have been recorded events in the recent past where volcanic eruptions (such as Santorini in the Mediterranean, Krakatoa in Sumatra/Java and Lakkii in Iceland) caused famine and crop failures. But a simultaneous collapse of multiple civilisations due to climatic change in undocumented after the last ice age.
1177 BC , Eygpt,Ethiopia the Middle East and the civilization's around the Mediterranean. They had a drought that over time collapsed the trade routes and then the economic structures collapsed. Egypt survived but never regained its former power.
 
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LCarlson

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Hello all,

There was a battle of insults and trolling on this thread between two users yesterday, which has now been cleaned up, with appropriate action taken on the demerits.

We all want to encourage open and civil discussion here, without resorting to nastiness. I want to personally thank all of you who managed to continue adding relevant, interesting commentary to this thread without being drawn into the feud.

If you see a user violating the Forum Rules, please tap on the "Report" link and let us know, so that we can take action as quickly as possible. There are plenty of places on the internet where insults and trolling are welcome - not here!

Thank you all,
LC
 
You have the right to say whatever you want of course that's why I said to him that his argument is weak only based on the scientific view but acceptable as any response.
I'm with you when you said that. Therefore, don't suggest me doing something first before replying to other people since you don't know me to judge me. However, the prestige nowadays is based not only on wealth but also on how many articles you write and comment without looking for the absolute truth. If you are looking for the truth for this issue then go ahead and look for data, otherwise you just come here to defend him without any common sense with all respect. Science is based on evidences and complete analysis not just on casual responses based on "2nd law of Thermodynamics" I respect your response and his response as well even though they are casual based on nothing and of course you can say what you want but that doesn't and will never change anything without proof

That is fair enough I just think before you come in here telling people how to post maybe you should post a few things yourself. That would be like me just walking into a school where nobody had ever seen me and just start giving my opinion on how the school should be run. You see what I am saying? Ok if you are so advanced in your knowledge what is the truth in why there is warm water under a glacier in Antarctica? And I would like to see information not connected to the governments of the world and not connected to scientist paid by governments. If I am going to atleast take a look at it, it must come from independent sources.
 
There are several aspects which leads me to question the theory that humans are mainly responsible for the observed global warming.

Firstly, there is the well-known lead-lag disparity between the rising the surface temperatures and the CO2 curves, the latter lagging the former, rather than the other way around.

Secondly, the CO2 proportion in the air is minuscule which in the past (from ice-core samples) has been much higher, as it varies over eons. Due to the very low density of the atmospheric gases, their low specific heat (retention capacity) and low thermal trans-conductance into the oceans makes the transfer of heat to warm the oceans tiny.

So, where is this extra heat to warm the oceans coming from? One possible answer could be that the earth’s mantle is warming up due to increased (cyclic) volcanic activity from the molten plumes rising from the earth’s core. Such convection plumes are thought to circulate from radioactive decay and stored latent heat from earth’s creation. Another cause could be from increased solar wind activity which causes more charged particles to hit the earth at the magnetic poles and induce greater currents in its core which could also affect the terrestrial magnetic field which seems to be waning and heading for a possible (magnetic) pole reversal. Increased heating of the earth’s core might also happen due to the magnetic region of the milky-way our solar system is drifting through and thereby interacting with the solar system’s and earth’s magnetic field.

So, there may be many factors why our climate is warming up. We as humans can clean up what local mess we create, but to say that we can control the climate is a bit far fetched. But it is a good way for governments to keep raising eco-taxes from willing masses while ignoring what is actually happening.

I agree and great post and the only thing I would add is take more of a look at the Geoengineering that is going on. I think that is another big factor. Some good info on that is Geoengineering watch on You Tube. Take a look at the latest video from a couple days ago.
 
1177 BC , Eygpt,Ethiopia the Middle East and the civilization's around the Mediterranean. They had a drought that over time collapsed the trade routes and then the economic structures collapsed. Egypt survived but never regained its former power.

Thanks for the information. That is something I did not know and I am sure many people don't. I wonder what the Elite at the time blamed the drought on? My hunch would be they blamed it on the common folk because they weren't making the gods happy. Just a guess though I really don't know.
 
Global temps have increased by 1 percent and the earth's magnetic field has decreased by 5 per cent ever decade since about 1947. Man created climate change not hardly on those that believe in fairytales they would cry out differently the Sky is Falling tales of Chicken little.

Not to mention we had one of the 2 coldest winters the last 2 years before this one. I remember last year around this time it was negative 55 Fahrenheit one of the days when the average temp is 32 degrees Fahrenheit. But I guess that is why they changed their catch phrase from Global Warming to Climate Change.
 
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Hmmm....could there be another explanation other than global warming. :unsure::unsure::unsure:

I said the same thing some time back, you cannot get away from the co2 and methane results as given to us, but I cant but help feel the temperature from within the planet needs looking at. It is forever changing were digging deeper and deeper than ever before.
 
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The world is warming at least 10 times faster than when it came out of the last ice age. It took 11,000 years to warm by 5 C. That averages 2,200 years for each 1 C warming.
Global average temperature has increased by 1 C in the last 138 years. Do the simple arithmetic. I got 16 times faster now.

That is because CO2 has likely never increased this fast naturally.
We are increasing atmospheric CO2 100 times faster than the fastest that nature has done in At Least the last 450,000 years and almost certainly in the last 800,000 years or more.
But I'm sure the following is having no impact. /sarc

Humans increased CO2 by over 80ppm in 58 years
Humans increased CO2 by 130ppm in 138 years
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Nature caused CO2 increases over the last 450,000 years, from ice core data
80ppm increase -- took 50,000 years
110ppm increase -- 25,000 years
120ppm increase --- 20,000 years
60ppm increase --- 20,000 years
90ppm increase --- 15,000 years
100ppm increase --- 24,800 years

The numbers for 800,000 years would be similar, based on a graph, from ice core data going back that far.
Here it is, along with a graph of CO2 for the last 10,000 years.
Since 1980 the increase has been .07c. That is with the ups and downs of the past five years. The 1.5c scaremongering was in force in 1980's. There are a couple of ways to stop the co2 levels. 1) Tell mankind to stop reproducing or 2) Stop all fossil fuels being used for energy. Which is most likely to be inforced?
 
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For the first time, an underwater robot visited the bottom of Antarctica's Thwaites Glacier.

Surprisingly warm water found on underside of Antarctica's 'Doomsday Glacier' : Read more
Nothing remarkable or surprising about that! I have been saying for years there is warm water under Thwaites, it is from the volcano Mt. Takahe which is still active although not erupting. There are over 140 volcanoes around Antarctica, and they are the major source of the warm water melting the glaciers, despite the rubbery figures some on here have been using to say volcanoes are totally to be ignored. Anyone who had been to New Zealand knows how much heat volcanoes produce!
 
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Volcanoes make up about 300 million tonnes of co2 into our atmosphere. The entire aviation industry is just triple that. Our planet is forever changing and we really need to respect her at all times.
 
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After seeing many "skeptic" comments claiming undersea volcanoes are causing the warming, I went to a couple of climate science websites and asked about it in comments. Here are some of the replies from scientists.
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Steve Bloom said...
" IMO the easy argument is that the surface above the mid-ocean ridges, which are the where the action really is for ocean volcanism, shows no trace of heat whatsoever. The same applies to individual volcanoes. "
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a_ray_in_dilbert_space said...
"Do the math. How much energy does it take to melt a couple of trillion tonnes of ice? How much energy will an average volcano put out? One of these numbers will be much, much bigger than the other. That ought to give you the answer--namely that anyone who trots out the undersea volcano argument is dumber than owlshit."

EliRabett said...
"Among other things the temperature and pH profiles are wrong. The excess is coming in from the top. "

Jim Eager said...
"Not just melt the ice, a_ray, it first has to heat the entire water column between these undersea volcanoes and the ice, and that's an even larger number.
As you say, dumber than owlshit. "

mitch said...
"Actually there is a trace of heat at about 200 m above the mid ocean ridges that can be traced away-about 0.01 deg. If there were near-human CO2 release at the mid ocean ridges , this would show up as a massive pH anomaly. It isn't there"
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comment by grindupBaker at Skeptical Science

"I compute that a total of ~0.00583 Zettajoules / year heat is added into the deep oceans at the sea bed by the annual 3 cubic kilometers of volcanic lava flow at an assumed average temperature of 1,000 degrees.
Current analysis is that 13.7 Zettajoules / year heat is added into the oceans from the surface down by the residual radiative imbalance
Thus, surface-down heat added = 2,350 times as much as volcano heat.

Also, just to hammer on the utter silliness of this "volcano heat" nonsense, note that the estimate of all geothermal heat is 0.085 w/m**2 (though not known very precisely) which is 1.37 Zettajoules / year. Thus, regular dull geothermal heat seeping up through the land surface and the sea bed is 1.37 / 0.00583 = 235 times as much as volcano heat. I expect that modellers would include this minor but not trivial heat, perhaps somebody else would confirm. The "volcano heat" nonsense is, quite frankly, extremely ignorant and it is beyond lazy not to at least attempt a 1st-order perhaps flawed approximation of the reference quantity for discussion as I have done. It is sadly indicative of a certain group of people that they vastly prefer anecdote and hyperbole to some attempt at analysis."
There is only one Math, one Physics and one Chemistry, whether or not they are being applied usefully or not, is irrelevant. The Laws of Physics never change, no matter where or when you are, in the universe!
If there were`no changes in ice, water and heat....there would be no weather at all!