New coronavirus may have started in bats. But how did it hop to humans?

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Dec 28, 2019
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The two indispensable facts: 1) before anybody “knew” about Coronavirus, China called a bunch of heavyweight docs to the point of origin, and 2) they made the finder sign a paper stating that he had done no such thing; makes me very comfortable with the ide that Coronavirus escaped from their germ warfare lab. Also the “reported number of cases” and the announced 2% fatalities don’t begin to match - either it is a lot more deadly than advertised, or there are a ton of cases not reported - take your pick
Stan
 
Feb 10, 2020
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The two indispensable facts: 1) before anybody “knew” about Coronavirus, China called a bunch of heavyweight docs to the point of origin, and 2) they made the finder sign a paper stating that he had done no such thing; makes me very comfortable with the ide that Coronavirus escaped from their germ warfare lab. Also the “reported number of cases” and the announced 2% fatalities don’t begin to match - either it is a lot more deadly than advertised, or there are a ton of cases not reported - take your pick
Stan
3 doctors now died from the Wuhan hospital, Li and two others. I'd say right now we have around 10% of countries reporting true numbers
 
Mar 6, 2020
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On the plus side...maybe So-called Wet Markets will be shut down in China
no, it came from space, mon, two months before the out break there was a report of a cosmic magnetic wave that hit earth. the virus is from space, Mon everything on earth evolved from bactieria from space. jocularity
 
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Mar 7, 2020
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Bats are know to have an immune system evolved that will deter corona types and are known carriers. One theory I read was that Bat Guano had inoculated a Pangolin (ant eater) during the feeding on ants by the Ant Eater. And in the Chinese market sells these poor endangered species was purchased for consumption.
The Ant Eater was eaten as food and passed the Corona to Human. And that was the one theory of the start of the outbreak.
In my Opinion.
 
Mar 7, 2020
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The two indispensable facts: 1) before anybody “knew” about Coronavirus, China called a bunch of heavyweight docs to the point of origin, and 2) they made the finder sign a paper stating that he had done no such thing; makes me very comfortable with the ide that Coronavirus escaped from their germ warfare lab. Also the “reported number of cases” and the announced 2% fatalities don’t begin to match - either it is a lot more deadly than advertised, or there are a ton of cases not reported - take your pick
Stan
I totally agree and the mortality rate appears to increase for the original 2% to now 3.4% to the large jump in mortality cases just announced in South Korea.
And the Germ Warfare lab was "invented" by Senator Cotton.
 
Mar 6, 2020
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Hello friends...., where am I suppose test my own vaccine, I made it, I have tested for my body which I have no suspect Corona ( still health). Do you know which Country will test it and collaborate , Just let me know....thanks all.
are you sure? self tested vaccines seem risky...
 
Mar 9, 2020
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And the Germ Warfare lab was "invented" by Senator Cotton.
Warfare seems to have been invented, but as stated earlier in the thread, they were working on SARS vaccines in Wuhan at least back in 2013, as stated on the Wuhan insitute of virology homepage.

My problem with BOTH the
1) The wet market natural evolution theory
2) Wuhan institute of virology source theory
is that they are both persuasive explanations of the origin of the virus, but they should not be geographically connected.

1) Almost all of the first cases were found in the Wuhan wet market, where pangolins and snakes could have been infected with bat poop (as per Contagion) or otherwise infected with a Bat virus (as this virus is). This is quite conceivable. But of all the wet markets in Asia, for this to be just down the road from the Wuhan Institute of Virology that was working on mutations of the SARS (very similar bat originated) virus seems too much of a coincidence.

2) For this virus to have originated in the Wuhan institute of virology one would have to explain how it got to the Wet market, and why?

2.1) A lab technician happened to be infected, or have some virus on their boots, and went home via the wet market. But of all the places in Wuhan, how likely is it that the place they deposited their viral spill be the same place that a virus could also have mutated and evolved naturally? As in (1) above, this coincidence too seems unlikely.

This leaves some sort of human intent....

2.2) A lab technician got infected, and or infected someone else, and then deliberately spread the virus in just the place where it could have mutated naturally as a cover up. Would someone start a global pandemic for this reason? I don't think so myself.

2.3) A lab technician sold a lab animal to the market? It seems to me that selling an animal that has been used in SARS research to a market for food is not something that a lab technician would do. Additionally, there is a big gap between rich and poor in China. So, in addition to being aware of the dangers, the lab technician is imho very unlikely to want the sort of tiny financial reward that a wet market can offer. Would a lab technician start a global pandemic for pennies? I don't think so myself.

[I'd be willing to bet that lab workers generally have zero contact with the wet market, purchasing their dinners from supermarkets much like those in the West. It is difficult to be aware of this without having been to China. China is like the West today and 19th century Asia in one place, but the people who hang out in laboratories do not visit the "19th century Asia" of the wet market. I went to Dairen Language University recently. It is not a very high technology place but still the people commuting to the air-conditioned university, wearing suits, driving foreign cars, were very different from those using the fish markets and fisherman's cafe only 1km away. Even here in Japan, my wife, my colleagues, do not go to the live fishmarket in the fishing village. They are all modernised purchasing fillets of fish in packs from the supermarkets. The cultural behavioural differences are not geographic nor measured in distance, but in the modern/university/laboratory types vs others. In China these different types of people live in close proximity, but they are still imho, very different.]

2.4) (I thought of another one.) A lab technician who usually has little contact with wet markets got sick, and decided to go to the Wet Market to purchase some sort of traditional cure. But, if so again, I would have expected people in the local pharmacy, and Chinese medicine dispensary to also have been infected instead of infections being localized in, and almost entirely limited to, the one place the virus could have evolved naturally. (Though there is suggestion that there were others, including patient Zero)

So how could the Wuhan lab / Wuhan market coincidence arise? As noted above, for me a natural coincidence is too great, so this question becomes, why would someone deliberately spread the same sort of virus that exists in the Wuhan lab, in the Wuhan market?
 
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it is easy for viruses like this to cross species....that is how it got to humans. whether from bats or pangolins a dog a mammel birds etc can get it is the truth...it mutates...that means changes. sars is a related viurs. common in poultry.

Dr. John Campbell talks about CORONAVIRUS ...it can MUTATE....it DID mutate to go from bats to another animal an from human to human...it coul go to any animals pets included..animals do have coronavirus family viruses...poultry were the first farme animals who had thiese...etc
View: https://youtu.be/wwUzkzjCNCA
 
Mar 9, 2020
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it is easy for viruses like this to cross species....that is how it got to humans. whether from bats or pangolins a dog a mammal birds etc can get it is the truth...it mutates...that means changes. SARS is a related virus.
I agree that viruses mutate and that it could be argued, as you do, that it did mutate.

However, what do you make of the fact (afaik) that the place were the virus seems to have mutated, of all the wet markets in all the world, is the wet market in the same City as, and only 30 minutes by car down the road from, a virus laboratory that investigated mutated SARS virus from 2013 (for the purpose of making a vaccine) and that had found in 2013, and on 27th January 2020, submitted the only other highly similar bat virus?

SARS is I think not only "related." The new virus is a strain of SARS, which it is why it is called SARS-CoV-2.

It seems to me that there are too many reasons for the virus to have come from Wuhan. It is like playing
Cluedo and finding that the murder was committed in the library with the candlestick, but both Professor Plum and Colonel Mustard 's dog (!) had the perfect opportunity and motive. I am not sure what to make of this.
 
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Mar 15, 2020
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I agree that viruses mutate and that it could be argued, as you do, that it did mutate.

However, what do you make of the fact (afaik) that the place were the virus seems to have mutated, of all the wet markets in all the world, is the wet market in the same City as, and only 30 minutes by car down the road from, a virus laboratory that investigated mutated SARS virus from 2013 (for the purpose of making a vaccine) and that had found in 2013, and on 27th January 2020, submitted the only other highly similar bat virus?

SARS is I think not only "related." The new virus is a strain of SARS, which it is why it is called SARS-CoV-2.
It seems to me that there are too many reasons for the virus to have come from Wuhan. It is like playing
Cluedo and finding that the murder was committed in the library with the candlestick, but both Professor Plum and Colonel Mustard 's dog (!) had the perfect opportunity and motive. I am not sure what to make of this.
Have you considered the fact that since 2003 international scientists have been studying the bat population in China? Perhaps there was an accident at this virology lab....but, I tend to think humans and viral genomic drift is the cause. Over 100 species of these mammals have been tested and determined to be reservoirs for various species of coronaviridae. Bats are the reservoir.....dried guano inhaled by Chinese harvesting the bats for food and sale were the vector. I don't believe eating the bats is so much the vector because this beta-corona virus invades the epithelial cells in the lungs. So IMO the route of infection was via airway...nasal...mouth....eye and once fully manifested the virus was able to spread via moisture droplets from those infected.
 
Mar 9, 2020
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Have you considered the fact that since 2003 international scientists have been studying the bat population in China?
No, I had not considered that. If I had thought about it, I would have known it, because SARS was in 2003 and so of course, we would have been researching it since then. The German team who have recommending serine protease inhibitors (serpins --- and there are some natural ones) pointed out that their line of reasoning arrived because they had been researching SARS since its outbreak. And while the funding was large at first, since no one else got SARS the funding petered out. The Wuhan Institute of Virology cooperated in its SARS research with a laboratory in Texas (part of the University of Texas).

Perhaps there was an accident at this virology lab....but, I tend to think humans and viral genomic drift is the cause. Over 100 species of these mammals have been tested and determined to be reservoirs for various species of coronaviridae. Bats are the reservoir.....dried guano inhaled by Chinese harvesting the bats for food and sale were the vector. I don't believe eating the bats is so much the vector because this beta-corona virus invades the epithelial cells in the lungs. So IMO the route of infection was via airway...nasal...mouth....eye and once fully manifested the virus was able to spread via moisture droplets from those infected.
All you say is true and or plausible.

What I do not understand is

Why the "viral genomic drift" should have occurred near to the first level 4 virology laboratory in China (which is a very big country), and one of very few such labs, and a lab that was investigating modified SARS, and the lab that posted the closest (and only really close) Bat viral DNA that they claim they found in 2013, but did not submit to the RNA repository until during the outbreak on 27th of January.

Here is a list of the labs in the whole world.

There is only one other level 4 (appropriate to SARS research) lab in China which was opened in 2018 in the City of Harbin. I would have been puzzled had the virus originated in Harbin too, since there are about 700 cities in China, all of which I presume have wet markets.
(I should think some towns and villages have them too.)

While the Harbin lab also undertook SARS research, they had not, unlike the Wuhan lab, published a viral genome very similar to that of nCov as far as I know because I think it is the only highly similar virus (from the comments to the "Uncanny Similarity" paper).

I now see that someone else has found some other Bat viruses that are similar.
 
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Mar 28, 2020
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This might be how....
Inside the vast Chinese caves where SARS may have originated and a new species of flesh-eating fungus has been discovered

  • There are countless kilometres of claustrophobia-inducing underground caves in Yunnan, full of bats and home to a newly discovered species of fungus

 

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