How To How tackle covid-19 in the unhealthy world of media manipulation and lack of meaningful information ?

[adam]

Covid-19 has been a clear example of the unhealthy social media and media
battlefield that prevails today.

I believe almost all the publically profiled US leaders and administrators have politicized covid-19 domestically. That includes President Trump, Dr Fauci and most republicans and most democrats. I also believe the Chinese have politicized the covid-19 epidemic and withheld information about the virus.

Much information provided has been politically biased or misleading and on social media or main stream media people just hurl abuse like fans of the opposing sports team and support one side right or wrong.

The biggest problems seem little willingness to provide meaningful info or

i. learn from places that tackle the virus effectively - Tiawan and New Zealand - ii. no debrief after a strategy is phased out on what went wrong or what worked and what needs to be rolled on
iii. no plan real plan on how to monitor the next strategy success or failure
iv. no admitting mistakes

All countries need a strong test, track and trace strategy with quarantine and treatment plans plus community support for those not working.

If this does not happen it is likely the virus will just keep coming back in waves until a vaccine is developed another treatment is found or immunity is achieved in some other way.

There needs to be open discussion about what has gone on and possible treatments and the mistakes made etc.

It has been odd that there has been a failure to find the source of the virus or at least little evidence of it being looked for.

The source of the virus and its mutation path may give important information on how the virus could develop.

Finally why are health strategies and treatments around the world so different ?

Its a world wide problem and until its tackled will just keep reinfecting people.

 

[James2k20]

Taiwan can barely be said to have tackled anything effectively given how few people they've tested - fewer tests equals fewer known cases and it's all dependent on who they test. Here in the UK most people tested were either in the health service, over 65 or were in the medical system for one reason or another and many of them got tested more than once. As for New Zealand, the only thing they've done right is have a small elderly population - they have little more than 600,000 people who are over 65 whereas America has over 52,000,000.

The truth is, every country has been taking the wrong actions and it's all because of Chinese propaganda and disinformation campaigns. As the rest of the world closed down, they opened back up and they're playing the same games that the rest of the world is playing. They're not closing down their entire country all at once, they're doing things piece by piece while claiming they're not getting any deaths and giving the rest of the world the appearance their actions work. I mean, a country of 1.4 billion and we're seeing little spikes every few months prompting them to "shut down" 0.04% of their population while a country as comparatively small as Australia sees steady growth after seeing cases down to practically zero per day which will most likely convince the geniuses to close down a lot more of their country? Please.

The funniest part about it all is that we're actually losing the real war that we're in. While you're all sidetracked with vaccines and waves - without realising we haven't even put a dent in purportedly weaker diseases such as influenza - our countries are being run to the ground from the inside. People are demanding their governments pay them for the privilege of staying off work even though there's nothing wrong with them and they've never made such demands during the bad flu seasons which happen often and which the seasonal vaccine is ineffective. We've got people literally begging to be locked up and that everybody's locked up with them. Millions are losing their jobs, businesses are being closed down, essentially we're all being made weaker.

There's only been one logical course of action from the beginning. We've always known who the at risk groups are, that's not changed since January. There's no reason at all to quarantine the low risk groups. Even if they were to require medical treatment, it'd be nothing compared to what the at risk groups would need, so the excuse of not flooding the hospitals is complete nonsense. The only people who need to isolate are the most at risk. The only people who need to take extra precautions are those who work with or are in contact with the at risk groups - as they would need to anyway with any pathogen. There's no need for the rest of us to worry. Work can then proceed on finding a treatment or vaccine for the at risk groups while keeping the country running.

Like it or not, no matter what we do today, no matter how low the cases start to look - they're going to rise again in a couple of months, it's already been proven. We can't keep locking everybody up, it's not practical, it's not healthy, it's not right and if the governments and media won't stop fueling the terror campaign, then people have to get on with their lives all by themselves.

That was a bit ranty... sorry.

 

[adam]

Taiwan can barely be said to have tackled anything effectively given how few people they've tested - fewer tests equals fewer known cases and it's all dependent on who they test. Here in the UK most people tested were either in the health service, over 65 or were in the medical system for one reason or another and many of them got tested more than once. As for New Zealand, the only thing they've done right is have a small elderly population - they have little more than 600,000 people who are over 65 whereas America has over 52,000,000.

The truth is, every country has been taking the wrong actions and it's all because of Chinese propaganda and disinformation campaigns. As the rest of the world closed down, they opened back up and they're playing the same games that the rest of the world is playing. They're not closing down their entire country all at once, they're doing things piece by piece while claiming they're not getting any deaths and giving the rest of the world the appearance their actions work. I mean, a country of 1.4 billion and we're seeing little spikes every few months prompting them to "shut down" 0.04% of their population while a country as comparatively small as Australia sees steady growth after seeing cases down to practically zero per day which will most likely convince the geniuses to close down a lot more of their country? Please.

The funniest part about it all is that we're actually losing the real war that we're in. While you're all sidetracked with vaccines and waves - without realising we haven't even put a dent in purportedly weaker diseases such as influenza - our countries are being run to the ground from the inside. People are demanding their governments pay them for the privilege of staying off work even though there's nothing wrong with them and they've never made such demands during the bad flu seasons which happen often and which the seasonal vaccine is ineffective. We've got people literally begging to be locked up and that everybody's locked up with them. Millions are losing their jobs, businesses are being closed down, essentially we're all being made weaker.

There's only been one logical course of action from the beginning. We've always known who the at risk groups are, that's not changed since January. There's no reason at all to quarantine the low risk groups. Even if they were to require medical treatment, it'd be nothing compared to what the at risk groups would need, so the excuse of not flooding the hospitals is complete nonsense. The only people who need to isolate are the most at risk. The only people who need to take extra precautions are those who work with or are in contact with the at risk groups - as they would need to anyway with any pathogen. There's no need for the rest of us to worry. Work can then proceed on finding a treatment or vaccine for the at risk groups while keeping the country running.

Like it or not, no matter what we do today, no matter how low the cases start to look - they're going to rise again in a couple of months, it's already been proven. We can't keep locking everybody up, it's not practical, it's not healthy, it's not right and if the governments and media won't stop fueling the terror campaign, then people have to get on with their lives all by themselves.

That was a bit ranty... sorry.

In most ways I agree with what you set out or its direction however its a bit difficult to know how to reply so excuse me for repeating myself in places. I make some comments about the way forward as I see it.

In most countries there has been little meaningful let alone inspiring strategic leadership - either from government based medical officials or from political leadership in dealing with the virus or in planning for the economic future.

I think this is the single biggest failing and this needs to change otherwise the future is bleak.

Politicians do not like to lead they like to jump onto the existing wave and take credit for appearing to lead.

In summary a strategic plan for health and the economy needs to be in place. Test, Track, Trace and Quarantine TTTQ, masks and social distancing, local lock downs and travel bans enforcable by central government also should become a normal response until vaccines and treatments are developed - its not great, it should be changed as we go forward and learn more but at least its a plan

The UK is talking about get 90 minute testing done. Real time testing seems the way forward with 8 minute tests already available and Israel and India working on a 30 second test.

India, Israel collaborate to develop rapid testing for Covid-19 in under 30 seconds

Israel will soon send a high level research delegation to India to conduct a series of 'final stages of testing' as part of the joint effort to develop the rapid testing kits.

theprint.in

Tests need to be in as near real time as possible to be effective and really meaningful etc. There should also be measures like regular monitoring of the sewage to check for increases in the infection rates etc etc

These should be permenant changes that mean new viruses and future epidemics can be caught early on and real time data provided as necessary. This system could also be used going forward outside crisis situations to screen for other health conditions in the population quality of drinking water etc

As you say in countries opening up without proper tttq the virus has just spread again which leads to the health care system not being able to cope in extreme cases and more fear etc.

Opening up the economy is pretty much the most important short and long term matter however for it to be effective there also needs to be a short and long term solution for tackling the virus.

One solution is allowing the population to circulate as has been done in Sweden however even in Sweden they block entry from abroad to people from certain countries

Travel to and stay in Sweden | The Swedish Police Authority

polisen.se

The alternatives are the Taiwan or New Zealand regimes with rules quarantining all travellers arriving in Taiwan or NZ

The Taiwan model has worked - the economy and schools were not closed down and its been over 100 days since there has been any local cases of infection.

The USA and the UK on the other hand have a had a mish mash of policies.

The UK has had pretty much the highest death rate in the world at 680 people per 1 million of population only Belgium has been higher at 849 per million. This says something is not working.

The focus in the media on absolute total death rates is really pretty meaningless and political

The virus spreads very easily especially in densely populated areas or those in multi generational homes and keeps on going winter and summer. Also many or most people seem to have no or few symptoms so is difficult to detect

For the economy to function properly people need to circulate without fear and that now depends on the regime in place.

The types of regimes used to tackle covid-19 have varied from the Sweden to Taiwan and everything in between.

Most countries stopped the virus too late so it is now in circulation, they failed to test, track, trace and quarantine (tttq) once the virus took hold and even now most tttqs are still not effective.

People have been shown attacking others for not wearing masks. This indicates a very high level of supressed fear.

Honest open reporting based on proper health controls needs to be in place so that the population engages actively with tttq and the economy can open without fear.


"Zero" Covid-19 countries

With regard to Taiwan and NZ both have stopped the virus locally and controlled its entry into their counties - so are effectively covid free or have issolated those with covid from the population.

Taiwan has had no new local covid-19 cases for over 100 days. Only people coming from abroad have been carriers and all people arriving in Taiwan are required to quaratine for 14 days.

If the virus were in circulation in Taiwan local cases would be turning up in hospitals etc this has not happened.

COVID-19 pandemic in Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Taiwan reaches 101 days with no new local COVID-19 cases

www.globalsecurity.org

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-taiwan-beat-the-coronavirus.html

Overall Death rates covid-19

The UK has had one of the worst death rates per head of population in the world.

2 August - UK 680 deaths per 1 million people, Sweden 568, USA 468, Australia 8, Belgium 849, Brazil 440, France 468

Coronavirus Update (Live): 119,113,952 Cases and 2,641,762 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[efarina96]

In most ways I agree with what you set out or its direction however its a bit difficult to know how to reply so excuse me for repeating myself in places. I make some comments about the way forward as I see it.

In most countries there has been little meaningful let alone inspiring strategic leadership - either from government based medical officials or from political leadership in dealing with the virus or in planning for the economic future.

I think this is the single biggest failing and this needs to change otherwise the future is bleak.

Politicians do not like to lead they like to jump onto the existing wave and take credit for appearing to lead.

In summary a strategic plan for health and the economy needs to be in place. Test, Track, Trace and Quarantine TTTQ, masks and social distancing, local lock downs and travel bans enforcable by central government also should become a normal response until vaccines and treatments are developed - its not great, it should be changed as we go forward and learn more but at least its a plan

The UK is talking about get 90 minute testing done. Real time testing seems the way forward with 8 minute tests already available and Israel and India working on a 30 second test.

India, Israel collaborate to develop rapid testing for Covid-19 in under 30 seconds

Israel will soon send a high level research delegation to India to conduct a series of 'final stages of testing' as part of the joint effort to develop the rapid testing kits.

theprint.in

Tests need to be in as near real time as possible to be effective and really meaningful etc. There should also be measures like regular monitoring of the sewage to check for increases in the infection rates etc etc

These should be permenant changes that mean new viruses and future epidemics can be caught early on and real time data provided as necessary. This system could also be used going forward outside crisis situations to screen for other health conditions in the population quality of drinking water etc

As you say in countries opening up without proper tttq the virus has just spread again which leads to the health care system not being able to cope in extreme cases and more fear etc.

Opening up the economy is pretty much the most important short and long term matter however for it to be effective there also needs to be a short and long term solution for tackling the virus.

One solution is allowing the population to circulate as has been done in Sweden however even in Sweden they block entry from abroad to people from certain countries

Travel to and stay in Sweden | The Swedish Police Authority

polisen.se

The alternatives are the Taiwan or New Zealand regimes with rules quarantining all travellers arriving in Taiwan or NZ

The Taiwan model has worked - the economy and schools were not closed down and its been over 100 days since there has been any local cases of infection.

The USA and the UK on the other hand have a had a mish mash of policies.

The UK has had pretty much the highest death rate in the world at 680 people per 1 million of population only Belgium has been higher at 849 per million. This says something is not working.

The focus in the media on absolute total death rates is really pretty meaningless and political

The virus spreads very easily especially in densely populated areas or those in multi generational homes and keeps on going winter and summer. Also many or most people seem to have no or few symptoms so is difficult to detect

For the economy to function properly people need to circulate without fear and that now depends on the regime in place.

The types of regimes used to tackle covid-19 have varied from the Sweden to Taiwan and everything in between.

Most countries stopped the virus too late so it is now in circulation, they failed to test, track, trace and quarantine (tttq) once the virus took hold and even now most tttqs are still not effective.

People have been shown attacking others for not wearing masks. This indicates a very high level of supressed fear.

Honest open reporting based on proper health controls needs to be in place so that the population engages actively with tttq and the economy can open without fear.


"Zero" Covid-19 countries

With regard to Taiwan and NZ both have stopped the virus locally and controlled its entry into their counties - so are effectively covid free or have issolated those with covid from the population.

Taiwan has had no new local covid-19 cases for over 100 days. Only people coming from abroad have been carriers and all people arriving in Taiwan are required to quaratine for 14 days.

If the virus were in circulation in Taiwan local cases would be turning up in hospitals etc this has not happened.

COVID-19 pandemic in Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Taiwan reaches 101 days with no new local COVID-19 cases

www.globalsecurity.org

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-taiwan-beat-the-coronavirus.html

Overall Death rates covid-19

The UK has had one of the worst death rates per head of population in the world.

2 August - UK 680 deaths per 1 million people, Sweden 568, USA 468, Australia 8, Belgium 849, Brazil 440, France 468

Coronavirus Update (Live): 119,113,952 Cases and 2,641,762 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Lack of legitimate leadership and accurate information is the problem.

‘I’m Sorry to Everyone’: In Death, South Korean Mayor Is Tainted by Scandal (Published 2020)

A longtime champion of women’s rights, Park Won-soon was accused by his secretary of sexual harassment. He is presumed to have killed himself.

www.nytimes.com

Seoul mayor's apparent suicide sends shock waves through South Korea

News that the former activist, women's rights advocate and lawyer had apparently taken his own life has rocked South Korea's capital.

www.nbcnews.com

When this story first broke, there were reports that an autopsy showed the mayors lungs were "completely deteriorated".
Now reports conveniently state that he requested a cremation.
The CIA wiped the truth from MSM outlets and destroyed the evidence.
I know I'm not the only one who saw this story in its original form.
I know I'm not the only one who sees our leaders lying to us yet again. These are dangerous times.
All around tbe world countries report "presumed covid deaths" which is anybody who dies from a lung condition. No autopsies are being performed.
Workers sign away their liability protections every day they go into work. If they have covid symptoms they tell themselves its something else because they need the money to survive, and bosses implicitly pressure people to come in in spite of symptoms because they don't believe this is serious.
People deserve the truth and they aren't getting it, and all our leaders care about is plausible deniability and preventing an all-out panic. If we had real leadership we would be prepared to handle a crisis like this without descending into anarchy.

 

[efarina96]

In most ways I agree with what you set out or its direction however its a bit difficult to know how to reply so excuse me for repeating myself in places. I make some comments about the way forward as I see it.

In most countries there has been little meaningful let alone inspiring strategic leadership - either from government based medical officials or from political leadership in dealing with the virus or in planning for the economic future.

I think this is the single biggest failing and this needs to change otherwise the future is bleak.

Politicians do not like to lead they like to jump onto the existing wave and take credit for appearing to lead.

In summary a strategic plan for health and the economy needs to be in place. Test, Track, Trace and Quarantine TTTQ, masks and social distancing, local lock downs and travel bans enforcable by central government also should become a normal response until vaccines and treatments are developed - its not great, it should be changed as we go forward and learn more but at least its a plan

The UK is talking about get 90 minute testing done. Real time testing seems the way forward with 8 minute tests already available and Israel and India working on a 30 second test.

India, Israel collaborate to develop rapid testing for Covid-19 in under 30 seconds

Israel will soon send a high level research delegation to India to conduct a series of 'final stages of testing' as part of the joint effort to develop the rapid testing kits.

theprint.in

Tests need to be in as near real time as possible to be effective and really meaningful etc. There should also be measures like regular monitoring of the sewage to check for increases in the infection rates etc etc

These should be permenant changes that mean new viruses and future epidemics can be caught early on and real time data provided as necessary. This system could also be used going forward outside crisis situations to screen for other health conditions in the population quality of drinking water etc

As you say in countries opening up without proper tttq the virus has just spread again which leads to the health care system not being able to cope in extreme cases and more fear etc.

Opening up the economy is pretty much the most important short and long term matter however for it to be effective there also needs to be a short and long term solution for tackling the virus.

One solution is allowing the population to circulate as has been done in Sweden however even in Sweden they block entry from abroad to people from certain countries

Travel to and stay in Sweden | The Swedish Police Authority

polisen.se

The alternatives are the Taiwan or New Zealand regimes with rules quarantining all travellers arriving in Taiwan or NZ

The Taiwan model has worked - the economy and schools were not closed down and its been over 100 days since there has been any local cases of infection.

The USA and the UK on the other hand have a had a mish mash of policies.

The UK has had pretty much the highest death rate in the world at 680 people per 1 million of population only Belgium has been higher at 849 per million. This says something is not working.

The focus in the media on absolute total death rates is really pretty meaningless and political

The virus spreads very easily especially in densely populated areas or those in multi generational homes and keeps on going winter and summer. Also many or most people seem to have no or few symptoms so is difficult to detect

For the economy to function properly people need to circulate without fear and that now depends on the regime in place.

The types of regimes used to tackle covid-19 have varied from the Sweden to Taiwan and everything in between.

Most countries stopped the virus too late so it is now in circulation, they failed to test, track, trace and quarantine (tttq) once the virus took hold and even now most tttqs are still not effective.

People have been shown attacking others for not wearing masks. This indicates a very high level of supressed fear.

Honest open reporting based on proper health controls needs to be in place so that the population engages actively with tttq and the economy can open without fear.


"Zero" Covid-19 countries

With regard to Taiwan and NZ both have stopped the virus locally and controlled its entry into their counties - so are effectively covid free or have issolated those with covid from the population.

Taiwan has had no new local covid-19 cases for over 100 days. Only people coming from abroad have been carriers and all people arriving in Taiwan are required to quaratine for 14 days.

If the virus were in circulation in Taiwan local cases would be turning up in hospitals etc this has not happened.

COVID-19 pandemic in Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Taiwan reaches 101 days with no new local COVID-19 cases

www.globalsecurity.org

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-taiwan-beat-the-coronavirus.html

Overall Death rates covid-19

The UK has had one of the worst death rates per head of population in the world.

2 August - UK 680 deaths per 1 million people, Sweden 568, USA 468, Australia 8, Belgium 849, Brazil 440, France 468

Coronavirus Update (Live): 119,113,952 Cases and 2,641,762 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Note that in reporting of the Seoul Mayor's suicide, the daughter who found his note claimed it was "strange" but did not mention an explicit statement of intended suicide. But the media also claims his note asked that his remains be cremated. They are lying.