Did Noah's flood really happen?

Dec 16, 2022
32
6
555
Another likely scenario for the flood stories is the end of the ice age, which apparently wasn't exactly a peaceful transition. Prehistoric oral tales are hard to decipher in terms of which parts are connected to historical events, and when exactly they occurred. We know the melting ice around 11k BCE flooded many coastal areas when sea levels lifted around 300 ft. But, the data we have in this respect is still sketchy at best. The only way to find more evidence is by combining multiple scientific disciplines, such as archeology, geology, biology, and climate history sciences and draw conclusions from there. For example, there must be good reasons why certain animal species became extinct at the end of the ice age. There also must be reasons why humanity survived that period. Just to figure this out, we need better climate history data. We know the Black Sea levels rose at some point in the past. But we don't know exactly when or why. It's likely the earliest biblical tales originated in the Mesopotamian region. But that’s far from certain. It's an assumption. We have no idea where the Garden of Eden was, or is. Is it a real place, or is it purely mythological? Nobody knows. Most Genesis stories are metaphorical or cautionary tales. Before Abraham surfaced in the OT, there are few, if any, geographical markers that could guide us to a better understanding. Were there even civilizations during the ice age? There had to be something like that because tropical regions remained ice free. No scientist really likes to talk about that era, the pre Neolithic time. Talking about the Neolithic time is hard enough. Anything before then ends up being a series of speculations. We really have no clear picture of prehistoric human history. That puzzle is still being assembled. During the past dozen years, or so, science had to admit that civilization didn't begin with the earliest written records, it began immediately after the ice age, double the time previously assumed. There are just very few things that are certain before writing became popular. We now know humans built temples on a grand scale of some sort immediately following the end of the ice age. Who taught those humans how to do that? Did they wake up one morning after everyone having had the same dream, and they started building monumental temples that require a decent amount of engineering? That knowledge had to originate somewhere. But, where?
 
Last edited:
May 14, 2023
1
1
15
Amen! For those who enjoy a good documentary watch IS GENESIS HISTORY? It will help those who might lean more toward science.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Berean
Feb 16, 2023
60
9
555
Another likely scenario for the flood stories is the end of the ice age, which apparently wasn't exactly a peaceful transition. Prehistoric oral tales are hard to decipher in terms of which parts are connected to historical events, and when exactly they occurred. We know the melting ice around 11k BCE flooded many coastal areas when sea levels lifted around 300 ft. But, the data we have in this respect is still sketchy at best. The only way to find more evidence is by combining multiple scientific disciplines, such as archeology, geology, biology, and climate history sciences and draw conclusions from there. For example, there must be good reasons why certain animal species became extinct at the end of the ice age. There also must be reasons why humanity survived that period. Just to figure this out, we need better climate history data. We know the Black Sea levels rose at some point in the past. But we don't know exactly when or why. It's likely the earliest biblical tales originated in the Mesopotamian region. But that’s far from certain. It's an assumption. We have no idea where the Garden of Eden was, or is. Is it a real place, or is it purely mythological? Nobody knows. Most Genesis stories are metaphorical or cautionary tales. Before Abraham surfaced in the OT, there are few, if any, geographical markers that could guide us to a better understanding. Were there even civilizations during the ice age? There had to be something like that because tropical regions remained ice free. No scientist really likes to talk about that era, the pre Neolithic time. Talking about the Neolithic time is hard enough. Anything before then ends up being a series of speculations. We really have no clear picture of prehistoric human history. That puzzle is still being assembled. During the past dozen years, or so, science had to admit that civilization didn't begin with the earliest written records, it began immediately after the ice age, double the time previously assumed. There are just very few things that are certain before writing became popular. We now know humans built temples on a grand scale of some sort immediately following the end of the ice age. Who taught those humans how to do that? Did they wake up one morning after everyone having had the same dream, and they started building monumental temples that require a decent amount of engineering? That knowledge had to originate somewhere. But, where?
We have a good idea where the garden of Eden was located.
we also know that adam meant red sand and was a part of a ritual where a boy turned man would cover himself in red mud that dried and fell off as «red sand» to symbolise the passing from childhood to adulthood.

the flood itself was most likely the event when the strait of gibraltar was worn down and released the north atlantic ocean in to what is today the mediterranean sea.

And building temples is not hard.
take the car engine. There is nothing like it in nature, so how did they get the idea to build an engine?
by building upon the knowledge of those that came before.
throwing some rocks together and call it a temple is a no brainer in comparison.
human before were not stupid. They basically had the same brain structure that we have today, so the potential was already there to build space rockets and lasers. They just had not accumulated the wealth of knowledge needed yet.
 
Apr 29, 2020
5
0
4,530
There is a significant mention in the biblical account of the waters under the earth pouring forth, which according to recent geological information would and could cover the earth in almost its entirety. Assuming massive earthquakes and ground separations we cannot imagine, a heating magma could expel massive amounts of this water. There was also a book by Werner Keller years ago that documented a flood of 10 feet over the entire Mesopotamian valley, called The Bible as History

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Gen 7:11
see
Waters Beneath the Earth on Youtube & a Second Video

Combine heated magma with ice sheets melting and you have the recipe for a worldwide flood.
 
May 15, 2023
1
0
10
Has there been searches for Noah's Ark? There have been searches made from at least the time of Eusebius (c.275–339 CE) to the present day. In the 1st century, Jewish historian Flavius Josephus claimed the remainder pieces of Noah's Ark had been found in Armenia, at the mountain of the Cordyaeans, which is nowadays Mount Ararat in Turkey.

According to the Bible Noah's Ark was stranded on Mount Ararat: Genesis 8:4 - "... on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat." (NIV)

You can't deposit a hypothesis without investigating the whereabouts of the Ark in my opinion.

Besides that, in the study, has a comparison been made with just the Earth's surface as it is in the present day, or does it include the Earth's surface from the time of the Flood? What are the differences?

The last remark is to be made at this moment. please read: "Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth" Go to https://ncse.ngo/yes-noahs-flood-may-have-happened-not-over-whole-earth
 

Rod

Apr 23, 2020
6
2
4,535
There were significant floods released by ice dams during the ice age. A retelling of any number of such events, plus the flooding of the Black Sea due to rising sea levels could have been retold numerous times until it was built up to Biblical proportions. The Navajo talk of a great flood, and they belong to a language group that began in the Northwest US, home of the great Missoula and Bonneville floods.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cecilia fx
Apr 29, 2020
5
0
4,530
Feb 13, 2023
38
4
55
For example, there must be good reasons why certain animal species became extinct at the end of the ice age. There also must be reasons why humanity survived that period.
Humans were likely a major factor in the extinction of megafauna. There is definitely a correlation.
"We now know humans built temples on a grand scale of some sort immediately following the end of the ice age. Who taught those humans how to do that? Did they wake up one morning after everyone having had the same dream, and they started building monumental temples that require a decent amount of engineering? That knowledge had to originate somewhere. But, where?"

Ease up on the ancient aliens BS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cecilia fx
Mar 14, 2023
7
1
35
Show me a coastal area, island, or valley town without flood stories. There have been so many tsunamis, ice dam bursts, monsoon floods, and the like... every culture will have stories of deluges. No mystery there. Humans like to live near water, and rare water events do happen eventually, everywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cecilia fx
Dec 12, 2019
21
11
4,535
It might be a retelling of the creation of the Black Sea via a flood from the Mediterranean sea (such as it was back then). We know people were there to see it, and there have been structures found under the surface, and there is a "spoil trace" under the water that looks very much like the spoil one gets from modern floods. To the people who were living there, it might well seem that the "Whole World" was going to drown, hence the story.
 
Mar 22, 2023
1
1
10
There have been hundreds of floods throughout history, some recorded as world floods well before biblical times happening in different parts of the planet and it would have seemed to the primitive people of that era that the world had been flooded. The seas had receded to expose land and mountains over millions of years before the Bible existed exposing the fossilised fish. and I fail to see that these events make the Bible anywhere near scientifically correct in anything you care to mention.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: cecilia fx
Dec 16, 2022
32
6
555
Humans were likely a major factor in the extinction of megafauna. There is definitely a correlation.


Ease up on the ancient aliens BS.
Not ancient alien sourced. It has nothing to do with aliens, period. There's no definitive evidence extraterrestrials had anything to do with evolution on earth or the development of civilization as we know it. However, our former view that civilization began simultaneously with the end of the hunter gatherer era is being challenged with early Neolithic structures such as Göbekli Tepe reaching back 11500 years. That site has been excavated for less than 30 years and we still don't really know who built it, why it was built, and what caused it to be abandoned. This is not like the discovery of the city of Troy, or the excavation of the Valley of the Kings, where we knew what we're looking at. We really had zero warning when the age of Göbekli Tepe was established. There are more monuments in that region of Turkey of similar age that haven't been excavated yet. Perhaps more answers will be found. Many hobby scientific researchers claimed for decades that human civilizations predating the Sumerian and Egyptian civilizations existed in various places on earth. Generally, this is turning out to be true, although not necessarily as predicted by the hobbyists. Even the pyramid building boom of Egypt appears to have had a much longer run up phase than previously assumed. All in all, the development of human civilization is much more complicated than previously taught in classrooms. Even the assumption that recorded history began in Sumer is seriously challenged with the discovery of script systems that appear to have been used on columns at Göbekli Tepe. They may not match the complexity of Sumerian scripts, but they indicate that script systems developed over 1000s of years predating agriculture and city building. Therefore, it's not outlandish to assume that there may be more to learn about our ancestors that predates what we know now.

As far as post ice age extinctions go, we have no explanation why creatures like sabretooth tigers and mammoths disappeared somewhere around 12000 years ago. The assumption that some climatic events played a role is not that far fetched. We're predicting some pretty drastic events to occur in our near future, including extinctions, resulting from the current warming trend. How much trouble was there in earth's environment during the glacier meltoff 12000 plus years ago? No one really knows. However, we know there must have been a big change in coastlines and weather events during that period. What exactly happened is anyone's guess at the present time. We're witnessing impressive environmental changes during our lifetimes as we speak. Imagine 1000 years worth of changes at the present clip. Earth surfaces could be significantly different by the end of the cycle we're in right now. Of course, once again, we're not capable of predicting that the current trend would persist in a gradual pattern established by observing the recent past. We know we've had something dubbed mini ice ages during the past 1000 years, at least once or twice. That means, our climate can make unpredicted rapid right or left turns anytime. We already know that ocean currents have changed in some places around the planet. Changing currents could lead to changing climatic patterns.

If you look at the world through the lens of our established sciences, you're liable to miss many developments of understanding our past, just because it may not fit what scientists agreed to be factual. There's nothing wrong with exploring the fringes of science with theories that challenge the status quo. Even though it's accepted that science progresses constantly, it doesn't like to be questioned, especially when questions originate outside of an established field of expertise. Insider skeptics will always question challenges by outsiders. Nevertheless, many discoveries were contributed by so called non-experts. Sometimes perceived expertise is its own worst enemy.

Since you brought it up, presently, assumptions, such as interference by extraterrestrials with humanity, are not credible, simply because we don't have enough data. UAP sightings do not amount to reliable data. Just because we can't explain a flying object doesn't mean we have evidence of extraterrestrials. On the other hand, if intelligent extraterrestrials exist, why wouldn't they have been here? Then again, we don't even know what to look for. We may discover that alien intelligent life, as we call it, is right in front of us every day. It could also be that we're alone in this vastness called the universe. Until this question is officially settled, anyone could have an answer that overturns everything we officially or unofficially assumed to date. Of course, that won’t be settled until science examines such evidence. Then again, do established scientists really want to risk their careers to get involved in a subject like this? That's why hobby scientists are important. They don't have professional reputations to protect.
 
Last edited:
Feb 13, 2023
38
4
55
"As far as post ice age extinctions go, we have no explanation why creatures like sabretooth tigers and mammoths disappeared somewhere around 12000 years ago."
There are hypotheses. The extinctions all followed human migration to the continents. A combo of human pressure and climate change is a sensible one.
"Then again, do established scientists really want to risk their careers to get involved in a subject like this?"
Avi Loeb did and he made a bundle off of it. He loves to claim martyr status, likening himself to Galileo. You are probably a fan.
 
Dec 16, 2022
32
6
555
There are hypotheses. The extinctions all followed human migration to the continents. A combo of human pressure and climate change is a sensible one.

Avi Loeb did and he made a bundle off of it. He loves to claim martyr status, likening himself to Galileo. You are probably a fan.
Thank you for adding useful details.
 
Jan 21, 2020
7
1
4,535
This further confirms my theory that everything written in the Bible is about the Middle Ease, and only about the Middle East. When the Bible refers to the entire Earth it is really talking about the Middle East. Actually it is about a small area within the Middle East near the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. Israel, Jordan, ecf..., Overzealous Christians always seem to loose sight of this fact.