Connecting the dots: which is the real origin of the global deadly COVID-19 pandemic, China, Italy or USA? What has biotech brought us?

Snorrie · Jan 24, 2021

It's too late to affix blame or condemnation to any particular group or nation. We need to move beyond that. Basically, China exported the virus. The U.S. was indolent and unprepared as well as reluctant to act aggressively to implement medical containment. Europe wallowed in the attitudes of the U.S.. Many Third World countries became overwhelmed. Consider such a repeat of the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic reactions. The world's concern and priority now is prevention, containment and vaccination ASAP. The political failures and associated financial interests must also be addressed globally. Otherwise, we may/probably will relive what we are experiencing today.

Snorrie · Jan 25, 2021

My claim of U.S. indolence is based upon what I experienced in NYC and NYS in 1Qtr'20. I give President Trump enormous credits for his containment actions , and his getting the vaccine at "Warp Speed". Note: the indolence was at the local levels and many of the local folks did/were permitted to do risky behavior and ignored guidelines. Some folks still do. As for China exporting the virus, I'm more than willing to have contrary facts to my claim . However, I think we will never be able get definitive facts one way or the other. So for me, it's time for nations to move on and concentrate on prevention, containment and vaccination. Dealing with the aftermath will be a political concern.

adam · Jan 26, 2021

Establishing the origins of a virus can help significantly in creating a vaccine and other treatments.

Independent studies of stored 2019 blood samples will trace back when and where the Covid-19 virus started in people or if some pre-Covid-19 virus was the origin.

We need to have lots of rapid antigen testing to see where the virus is spreading and then blood testing on the infected to see how it mutates.

The solutions available for now are to test households, school classes and work places daily with cheap rapid (5 to 15minute) antigen testing, isolate the infected and people who have contacted the infected, treat all in these groups with a range of cheap drugs like ivermectin to stop them as much as possible catching or developing the virus, and vaccinate the population who wants the vaccine.

There is no certainty that vaccines will stop the virus as it mutates or that the vaccine is a long term solution.

Its test track trace isolate, until the virus is out of the population or treatment or immunity is developed.

We need to see what was done incorrectly in 2020 to stop it happening with Covid or any future virus.

The Chinese and other people around the world have faced great difficulties, and this has been because of bad leadership and the hiding of information in most countries including China

The Chinese leaders allowed people in China to travel for the January 2020 Chinese New Year celebrations (the biggest annual movement of people in the world) despite knowing there was a new SARS virus confirmed by testing to be circulating in Wuhan by the 30th December 2019 and already shown to be passing from human to human

China accepts thats Covid-19s nearest recorded genetic matching virus is RaTG13 which was discovered by Prof Shi from Wuhan Institute of Virology / WIV in 2013.

The Chinese authorities have not allowed independent reporting and have hidden and destroyed data about the original Wuhan Covid-19

It seems likely the Chinese Covid-19 rates may be very unreliable. China considers asymptomatic Covid-19 cases as not being a recorded case of Covid-19.

China reports 33 new Covid-19 cases, sharp spike in asymptomatic cases

The number of new asymptomatic cases, which China does not classify as confirmed cases, rose to 40 from eight cases a day earlier.

www.hindustantimes.com

Prof Shi and the Chinese authorities have failed to disclose what they knew about the original Wuhan virus.

For example that RaTG14 was discovered in the caves where 3 miners died in 2012 of an unknown SARS/Covid-19 like Coronavirus and that WIV tested the miners blood in 2012 and discovered it contained an unknown coronavirus. Please see linked post at the end for the original Chinese research showing what happened to the dead 2012 miners

Prof Shi failed to disclose many things in her early 2020 statements about the Wuhan Coronavirus - for example that samples of the 2012 miners blood were kept and tested again in 2020. This was later revealed by Prof Shi in late 2020. No independent verification of any of the work done has been allowed by China.

Prof Shi from WIV stated in 2016 in a published paper that RaTG13 was a rare SARS related pandemic potential coronavirus.

Prof Shi stated she did no work on RaTG13 until 2020. This seems unlikely however it also indicates Prof Shi did not share the virus with any other country so the nearest virus to the Wuhan Covid-19 virus was discovered by Prof Shi and brought to Wuhan in 2013.

It is also very strange that no samples of Prof Shi's virus RaTG13 exists anywhere in the world, it was only ever found once and was never independently verfied as a natural virus or studied by anyone except Prof Shi.

The Covid-19 viruses that mutated around the world have come from the original Chinese Wuhan coronavirus and there is no evidence they developed before the Wuhan Virus or independently of the original Chinese Wuhan Covid-19 virus. This is easily seen in the genetic code development of the virus

From reviewing old blood samples there were shown to be a one or two isolated cases of Covid-19 in late December in Paris in Europe but that is not surprising given international travel.

The Chinese have refused to allow an independent investigation of old Chinese blood samples to see when the original Wuhan Covid-19 virus was first in circulation

There is no evidence from saved blood samples in Europe or elsewhere, that Covid-19 was widely circulating outside China prior to its start in China of the Wuhan virus

The Wuhan virus probably started in Wuhan sometime after August or September 2019 and any event was in circulation by sometime in November/December 2019 as was revealed by whistleblower attempts by Chinese Drs

It was Taiwan not China that warned the world that there was a potential world health crisis in December 2019.

At that time China was suppressing Drs from passing on information about the Wuhan Covid-19

Taiwan was ignored because of Chinese pressure and influence over WHO

Taiwan understood how China conducts its domestic policies to cover up anything that brings loss of face to the CCP.

China had previously tried to cover up SARS outbreaks that had escaped from Chinese labs and this guided Taiwan's response

The Chinese authorities punished the Drs like Dr Li Wengliang who warned in late December there was a SARS like virus with human to human infection occurring

How Chinese doctor Li Wenliang died twice in China's state media

The Chinese media's reporting of the death of coronavirus whistleblower doctor Li Wenliang caused confusion and anger Thursday night, as Li was first pronounced dead, then alive and, finally, dead again.

www.cnn.com

Even when Dr Li died of Covid the Chinese authorities reported in the same day he was dead then he was alive then dead again. See the link above.

The Chinese authorities do not allow the free reporting of any negative information that would damage the Communist Party / CCP

While the western media is also controlled there is still more openness

China hid that there was human to human infection of Covid-19 even though it was clear that this was happening after Dr Li circulated Dr Ai's warning of a SARS conronavirus infection and for colleagues to protect themselves from catching it from patients

Dr Ai who warned Dr Li set out the following

On 30 December, after seeing several patients with flu-like symptoms and resistant to usual treatment methods, Ai received the lab results of one case, which contained the word: “Sars coronavirus.” Ai, reading the report several times, says she broke out into a cold sweat.

She circled the words Sars, took a photo and sent it to a former medical school classmate, now a doctor at another hospital in Wuhan. By that evening, the photo had spread throughout medical circles in Wuhan, where it was also shared by Li Wenliang, becoming the first piece of evidence of the outbreak.

That night Ai said she received a message from her hospital saying information about this mysterious disease should not be arbitrarily released in order to avoid causing panic. Two days later, she told the magazine, she was summoned by the head of the hospital’s disciplinary inspection committee and reprimanded for “spreading rumours” and “harming stability”.

The staff were forbidden from passing messages or images related to the virus, she said. All Ai could do was ask her staff to wear protective clothing and masks – even as hospital authorities told them not to. She told her department to wear protective jackets under their doctor coats.

“We watched more and more patients come in as the radius of the spread of infection became larger,” she said, as they began to see patients with no connection to the seafood market, believed to be the source of the first cases.

Meanwhile, Chinese officials were still insisting there was no reason to believe the virus was being passed between people. “I knew there must be human to human transmission,” Ai said.

Coronavirus: Wuhan doctor speaks out against authorities

Ai Fen says in interview, which censors are trying to erase, how superiors reprimanded her for warning about outbreak

www.theguardian.com

Ai Fen - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

China Coronavirus Whistleblower Mysteriously Goes Missing, Is Police Using Her Social Media?

Chinese doctor Ai Fen, who was apparently the first to diagnose a case of COVID-19, is missing in China and no one knows where she is.

www.ibtimes.com

Even after China blocked domestic travel it allowed people for sometime to leave China by air without tests so spreading the virus around the world.

China criticised other countries who brought in travel bans on China and called them racist and threatened negative consequences

University Researchers working on Covid-19 vaccines have studied the Wuhan Covid-19 coronavirus to understand how it developed to help with creating a vaccine and have stated in published papers that the virus has characteristics that they would not expect to see in a virus that mutated naturally from RaTG13

For more on the possible origins of the original Wuhan Covid-19 and research to date please read the post linked below

Page 14 - The coronavirus did not escape from a lab. Here's how we know.

Page 14 - For the science geek in everyone, Live Science breaks down the stories behind the most interesting news and photos on the Internet.

forums.livescience.com

Snorrie · Jan 26, 2021

So far, as publicly reported, approx. 100Meg people have contracted covid-19 with a mortality rate of approx. 1.4%, excluding China. The impact upon those ordinary folks who were/are effected is horrific. It would seem that the political inspired "finger pointing", blaming, face saving, and deliberate/hysterical misinformation campaigns by sundry nations, should be stopped, and a full global cooperative effort by all nations put into stopping this mutating virus. When the morbidity and mortality end, the world 's political bodies will have the time to determine the historical facts and hopefully take corrective actions. Perhaps?

adam · Jan 27, 2021

Sunshine Li said:
When a few first cases of an unknown disease showed up, how could any country declare it an emergency or a pandemic? Any country would try to contain it insteads of a declaration. Social stability is always the priority for a government.

This is almost totally untrue and very misleading.

By 30th December 2019 Wuhan hospital tests were publicly circulating between Chinese Drs showing the SARS virus was circulating and some patients were already being isolated. It is likely that there were earlier and later tests showing SARS that were not circulated.

All countries including China have a 2004 international requirement to report any single SARS case within 24 hours of discovery to The WHO

Covid-19 is also known as SARS-COV-2 started in Wuhan region in 2019, and Covid-19 tests positive as a generic SARS virus

China knowingly broke its International and moral obligation to report any SARS case to The WHO within 24 hours in 2012, 2019 and 2020

The World Health Organization states

"National health authorities should report the first "preliminary positive" case(s) of SARS in their country to WHO within 24 hours of the receipt of positive test results"

https://www.who.int/csr/resources/publications/WHO_CDS_CSR_ARO_2004_1.pdf

Other countries have locked down in the 2000s quickly to new viruses without knowing exactly what they were - see examples below

In 2009 Mexico did not hide bird flu from the world which was later declared a pandemic.

Before The WHO acted Mexico very quickly had a 5 day nationwide lockdown of all people after only 179 people officially died from bird flu.

Swine flu: Mexico's government orders businesses to close and citizens to stay indoors for five days in an effort to halt swine flu

Government orders businesses to close and citizens to stay indoors for five days in an effort to halt swine flu

www.theguardian.com

In 2003 Taiwan put a hospital into 14 days of lockdown after a businessman infected with SARS in CHINA brought SARS to Taiwan without formal confirmation it was SARS.

In 2003 only seven hospital staff came down with possible SARS symptoms on April 22 however this caused the lockdown decision.

Any suspected SARS coronavirus outbreak is very serious and requires quick isolation.

Up to the lockdown point in 2003, Taiwan had only seen 28 cases since the virus was first confirmed on March 14. Eventually in 2003 about 34 people died of SARS during the hospital related lockdown.

In China by 31st December 2019 people had been infected by a confirmed SARS virus and many more had similar very serious SARS symptoms than when Taiwan had the 2003 hospital lockdown

We now know the number of SARS / COVID-19 cases in the Wuhan region was at least 266 by 31 December 2019, with many more unconfirmed but with serious SARS like symptoms and even more probably asymptomatic.

That same day, the WHO received reports of a cluster of viral pneumonia cases of an unknown cause in Wuhan

It was known by Dec. 30th 2019 that a SARS virus was spreading between people without an animal host and with many cases

Unlike Taiwan in 2003 China did nothing, did not report SARS and forced its Drs to withhold information and write apologies for telling the truth and ordered Drs not to wear SARS protective equipment.

However China suddenly became a big importer of SARS protective equipment having previously been a big seller while all the time saying there was no medical problem and no SARS problem

COVID-19 pandemic - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Taiwan in Time: Remembering the SARS lockdown - Taipei Times

<strong>April 20 to April 26</strong> The windows of Hoping Hospital were plastered with white banners as staff members clashed with the police as they were trying to escape. One nurse even tried to jump out the eighth floor window before being stopped by colleagues. “We are healthy people...

www.taipeitimes.com

2002–2004 SARS outbreak - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Other countries had quick local area and air travel restrictions or lockdowns in the 2009 pandemic and previously quickly restricted travel to infected areas for many animal and human virus outbreaks

China has repeatedly hidden information about lab escapes of SARS infections/deaths and the big human outbreak of SARS around 2003 which went on to infect those outside China. The Chinese 2003 denials of SARS and delays are almost identical to those of Covid-19 in China

China heavily attacked the USA for blocking air travel to China on 31st January 2020 even though by then there was no doubt about human to human transmission

It is clear your response reflects the real attitude of those who wish to hide what has happened now and previously in China

Any human or animal SARS type outbreak is immediately a hugely serious risk like other diseases that need immediate reporting and attention to stop their spread.

We also now know China failed to report the 2012 deaths of miners from an unknown SARS coronavirus as it was supposed to

Let us keep it simple China deliberately told the world lies about human to human transmission of Wuhan Covid-19 in 2019 and 2020 or what China was doing and knew, withheld data and still refuses to allow researchers to investigate. China did the same in 2003 over SARS

Let us be clear on 30th December 2019 Dr Ai in Wuhan circulated test results showing that a SARS coronavirus was circulating in Wuhan.

The next day The WHO was informed of a serious viral outbreak in Wuhan.

The WHO was also advised by Taiwan on 31st December that doctors in Taiwan had learned of an unnamed outbreak in Wuhan where patients were being isolated and also said according to Reuters

CHINESE "health authorities replied to the media that the cases were believed not to be SARS, however the samples are still under examination, and cases have been isolated for treatment,”

This was a lie. Tests showed SARS by at least 30th December

Taiwan, WHO spar again over coronavirus information sharing

Tension flared again on Saturday as Taiwan accused the World Health Organization (WHO) of playing word games in a dispute over details it sought in an email querying if the new coronavirus could be transmitted between people.

www.reuters.com

Chinese Drs knew in December 2019 there was human to human transmission of SARS and were so worried they wanted to use protective equipment by the 30th December, but were ordered not to share this knowledge so only wore SARS protection secretly.

This alone shows China was hiding an outbreak of SARS

Dr Li who was later declared a national hero for exposing Covid-19 was forced by the Chinese authorities to write a lie saying there was no problem and apologise for saying the truth about a new confirmed SARS outbreak.

Dr Ai is known in China as the Whistlegiver. Dr Li who was the whistleblower circulated those SARS tests results. Dr Li and Dr Ai were both punished for circulating this information. Dr Li died of coronavirus and was declared hero by the Chinese government

China hid the information that the Wuhan virus was transmitted between people and tried to stop other countries blocking Chinese flights.

Coronavirus: Wuhan doctor speaks out against authorities

Ai Fen says in interview, which censors are trying to erase, how superiors reprimanded her for warning about outbreak

www.theguardian.com

Because the Chinese Government and CCP did not provide honest information and used its influence to change official statements about the origin and spread of Covid-19 it allowed the virus to spread in China and the World.

To find better and effective treatments we need to know when the any virus started and go back as far as is possible. China has blocked this normal research which is easy to do from stored 2019 blood samples.

adam · Jan 30, 2021

Sunshine Li said:
The top government or top CCP did not sit idle when there were allegations that a SARS-like disease was in brew in Wuhan.

You really distort what the National Chinese leaders did to block the Covid-19 data being released in China and to the world.

President Xi knew by the 7th January 2020 directly from Dr George Gao there was SARS in Wuhan and there was also human to human transmission but both men hid the information and data to try to protect the CCP.

In the Feb. 3 speech, Xi told China’s most powerful leaders that he had “continuously given verbal and written instructions” since Jan. 7 2020

The top National CCP official Dr George Gao head of Chinese CDC took control of Wuhan situation and data release by 1st January 2020 and President Xi by 7th Jan 2020 and both men covered up what was going on and the data they already had.

On 3rd of Jan 2020 the National CCP and Chinese CDC ordered destruction of Covid-19 samples the same day as Dr Gao warned the US CDC by phone that there was a major problem in Wuhan but gave no data

Either the destroyed virus samples were very dangerous or China was hiding the SARS outbreak - either way it was a cover up by the Beijing CCP Government.

Both Xi and Gao knew in very early January or before of the confirmed reports of the serious SARS outbreak and that genetic sequencing had confirmed SARS by 27th Dec 2019 with a full gene sequence being received by China CDC on 3rd January. Human to human transmission was also confirmed by social media as medical staff were getting infected from patients

Liu Dengfeng, a supervisor at the science and education division of China's National Health Commission, confirmed it was a Beijing Chinese Central CCP government that issued orders on January 3 to labs and medical institutes to destroy Covid-19 patient samples

Starting the WHO investigation over a year after the virus started and samples were deliberately destroyed is insulting to both the living and the dead. It makes me think of the 1989 Tiananmen Square Protests and how that story was re-written by the CCP.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lXJ6gHFME0w

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qq8zFLIftGk

China did not give the SARS information to the WHO as it was supposed within 24 hours of a SARS test result - it waited for over 2 weeks from 27th December to release the SARS data and the genetic sequence to the world

All these decisions to release data the China CDC had were Beijing Chinese CCP government decisions not regional Chinese government choices. Even that data came first from other sources not the official Chinese Government

The Covid-19 gene sequence was eventually released by a Chinese researcher on the 11th January. He had sequenced it separately by the 5th Jan but could get no official approval to release his data so eventually released it without approval. His lab was shut down after that data release.

Chinese President Xi Says He Led COVID-19 Efforts Early in Outbreak

Xi said he had personally ordered the quarantine of about 60 million people in Hubei province

time.com

Time line

The timeline indicates Xi was totally aware of the outbreak's severity

Dec. 27: A Chinese lab assembles a near-complete sequence of the virus, showing a SARS coronavirus like that of the 2002-03 SARS outbreak. The lab alerts health authorities, but the information is kept under wraps.

— Dec. 30: Doctors begin warning about the SARS outbreak independently on social media — share a lab report indicating the pathogen is a SARS virus and warn to wear protective clothing against human to human transmission

Jan. 3, 2020: The Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention obtains a full sequence of the virus but doesn’t release it. China reports the outbreak to the WHO, but Chinese authorities order labs and medical institutes to destroy patient samples.

3 January Robert Redfield, director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), spoke with his Chinese counterpart, George Gao, and was alerted to the newly emerging disease

Jan. 11: WHO says Chinese investigators have conducted gene sequencing of the virus, an initial step toward treatment and a vaccine.

WHO warning published on 11 January, advising clinicians and health officials to be alert to the emergence of clusters of cases as well as any “evidence of amplified or sustained human-to-human transmission” despite the Chinese, at that stage, not reporting sustained local transmission.

Jan. 13: The first case outside China is identified in Thailand.

Jan. 14: Chinese health officials say in an internal meeting that “clustered cases suggest human-to-human transmission is possible” and order emergency preparations for a pandemic. In public, they downplay the virus’s ability to infect.

WHO warned of transmission risk in January, despite Trump claims

Notes to global health leaders on 10 and 11 January highlighted possible infection routes

www.theguardian.com

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in.news.yahoo.com

Exclusive: Chinese Scientist Who First Sequenced COVID-19 Genome Speaks About Controversies Surrounding His Work

Professor Zhang Yongzhen is seeking to set the record straight

time.com

China Acknowledges Destroying Early Coronavirus Samples, Confirming U.S. Accusation

China National Health Commission official Liu Dengfeng said some early COVID-19 samples were destroyed after the disease was deemed too dangerous to handle for some facilities.

www.newsweek.com

Snorrie · Jan 30, 2021

"Who Dat?", "Who Dat, Who say Who Dat"? and on and on and on. The world's priority has to be containment, prevention and VACCINATION. The CCP has not developed a covid-19 vaccine(s) as effective as those developed in the West. Conversely, the West lags in vaccine manufacture, distribution and administration. Politics and economics seem to be cause factors. Such situations leave an "opening" for further covid-19 mutations which may in the near future be difficult to control/vaccine against. How about some basic humanitarian cooperation among governments? N.B.: Governments and politicians will always engage in the usual moral, self-serving prostitution to conceal/cover/mitigate their errors in judgement/mistakes/ chicanery. Yea! International cooperation on the covid-19 issues does seem too much to expect. Meanwhile the "Crows" squawk.

adam · Jan 30, 2021

Snorrie said:
How about some basic humanitarian cooperation among governments?

Yes this is the best way forward.

Common sense must be applied

We already know getting back as close as possible to who was the first infected patient, and how, when and where ANY disease started mutated and progressed is fundamental to any effective response whether its ebola or covid-19 or bird flu.

Looking at historic patient and community blood and human and virus samples and the changes over time (for example what sort of people does the virus mutate in and when did that start to happen etc) is also a key part of developing effective treatments.

Almost all countries apart from NZ and Taiwan made serious mistakes and continue to do so

All historic and new data must be openly shared and missing data clarified and filled in as it is part of any cooperation among governments, otherwise we will repeat past mistakes and not have effective data for science or on the ground treatment.

Full data reviews of old blood etc should be independently checked and the data published for the USA, EU, Russia and China plus other countries

Knowing what false assumptions or good and bad timely actions were taken is also key to success in the future. Which test track trace policies were effective etc and should be used and what needs to be done?

Ivermectin and other treatments that have been used successfully in human covid-19 trials and tested in other countries need to be rolled out.

See Ivermectin and HQC posts in livescience for the latest data on this site or for clinical data on all the published clinical trials by early, begining and late use and other protocols see link below at

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 237 studies

c19study.com

Ivermectin for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 55 studies

c19ivermectin.com

An understanding of why these safe medicines were not used needs to be shown.

As can be seen such openness is not about attacking China its about looking at the data everywhere.

Openness is about stopping future mistakes admitting past mistakes so we can restart the use of safe meds which were or are being blocked but that have been shown to work in many medical trials. The risks and costs of certain simple safe old meds are low but the potential benefits have been shown to be big when used in various cities and regions around the world. There is almost nothing to lose and much upside. Ivermectin can be taken once or twice a month during a lockdown and then for a month or 2 after lockdown.

Why are cheap easy to use home antigen tests not freely available ? 1 family or workgroup can share 1 test by mixing their samples together and seeing the combined result to show a daily or weekly group result. Clear group is good an infected group result means isolation for all in that group and their contacts can also be quickly tested.

Again this is not about China its about fixing what has gone wrong

We need all this data properly released and reviewed and it agreed how to fast track alternative medicine solution research and deployment as vaccines may not be a long term solution

We need to roll out trials on the many cheap safe alternative medicines that show promise now just as has been done with vaccines.

We also need historic data on how the virus spread to see if the new strategies work

China like all countries needs to be open about its historic data and responses and all countries should allow the data to be independently checked

adam · Jan 31, 2021

We need openness NOW to change the way all leaders think and operate against Covid-19 NOW.

There will still be lessons to learn only openness can help us

The reason to understand why China and most of the world failed to stop Covid-19 is to make sure those in power do not do the same things again in 2021 and hide what is happening

We need to use the successful public health models against Covid-19.

I agree no countries apart from Taiwan and New Zealand handled the Covid-19 outbreak well.

Most Medical and National leaders failed their people including Dr Fauci, Dr Gao, President Trump, Joe Biden and especially President Xi.

All these men said there was no problem but knew otherwise very early on. Later they all pushed different political or industry group interests not a public health solution.

The main thing Trump did well was ban most flights from China early on despite Dr Fauci, Biden and others in the USA and China saying it was unnecessary and racist. However Trump failed to put in domestic controls to stop contagion

We still do not know what is happening in China today. China stops independent reporting on Covid-19

We do know that Hong Kong on the January 4th 2020, just days after CDC in Mainland China reported a cluster of pneumonia cases with unknown causes in Wuhan, [the HKSAR Government] initiated its “serious response level” alert against SARS and then was reportedly stopped from taking more action until late January. See Atlantic article at the end and HK timeline on CNBC also at end of this post.

Initial Public Health Response and Interim Clinical Guidance ...

CDC, multiple other federal agencies, state and local health departments, and other partners are implementing aggressive measures to slow transmission of 2019-nCoV in the United States, be ready ...

web.archive.org

The question you asked was

"which is the real origin of the global deadly COVID-19 pandemic, China, Italy or USA?"

You avoid answering your own question. Lets look at that later

Al Jazeera has interviewed Taiwan's Health Minister to understand how they successfully stopped Covid coming from China.

It is clear this Taiwan experience can be applied NOW to stop Covid spreading more in 2021.

COVID ‘could have been contained’: Taiwan’s ex-health minister

Dr Chen Chien-jen says prompt action in December 2019 could have averted a global pandemic.

www.aljazeera.com

The Ebola and bird and swine flu outbreaks were treated by public health solution measures. The 2002-2003 SARS outbreak was treated politically until very late.

China has a history of covering up epidemics. In 2003, the world didn’t learn about SARS until after it had escaped China and become impossible to deny. (Back then, the WHO openly criticized China for its lack of transparency and cover-up, and we contained the epidemic just in the nick of time.) This time, the WHO did what China wanted despite early evidence showing a serious 2020 SARS pandemic would begun

NOW stopping the spread of SARS / Covid-19 and finding treatments and cures is VITAL.

We need a different leader mindset for the Covid-19 crisis.

There are a range of simple health measures and treatments that work against Covid-19 as shown by Taiwan and New Zealand.

The use of older medicines like Ivermectin, vaccines and rapid antigen TESTING of people is critical.

China is still not open about what is happening. No open debate is allowed on Covid-19 or any treatment regimes. This is what happened in 2019 and 2020. The World and China still cannot depend on what Chinese leaders say on how to deal with Covid-19

Taiwan was successful against Covid-19 because it knew how China acted from the 2003 SARS outbreak so did not trust the data or public comments China provided on Covid-19 and warned the world and WHO as early as 31st Dec 2019 of the problem.
Taiwan used testing and public health measures to stop Covid-19

Hong Kong also had early sucess based on its SARS protocols when it acted to block travel from Wuhan and introduce medical measures on 4th Jan 2020 but Beijing stopped some proposed steps and this helped allow the virus into Hong Kong unlike Taiwan.

The question you asked was

"which is the real origin of the global deadly COVID-19 pandemic, China, Italy or USA?"

I believe this question is now only important to make sure 2021 Covid-19 health care works and we do not make the same mistakes with new Covid-19 programs or just accept the way the Chinese leaders deal with the health crisis is valid

For that reason I set out the publicly know info below.

The answer is China. Both for where SARS/Covid-19 started and for hiding what was happening and so allowing the spread around the world

SARS/Covid-19 that first spread around the world was from China.

The Wuhan Covid-19 genetic sequence is very clear. There is no evidence to say some unrelated virus suddenly infected other countries. The recent mutations of covid all come from the Wuhan Covid-19

China is still trying to rewrite its role in old 2020 events and seems to do the same now as more Covid waves hit China and the world in 2021

On China - President Xi and Chinese CDC leader Dr George Gao knew from the gene sequenced lab tests the Chinese CDC had by the 27th of December 2019, that there was a serious SARS outbreak in Wuhan.

Xi and Gao both deliberately hid the test information from China and the world and failed to report that there was a SARS outbreak to the WHO within 24 hours as required. Taiwan reported to the WHO its SARS Covid-19 outbreaks why did China not do the same?

On the 11th Jan 2020 the SARS data was released unofficially by Chinese researchers who were then punished.

This was also what China did in 2002-2003 when SARS first occurred.

Compare this with Taiwan and Hong Kong early approach to that of China

On 22 Jan 2020 Taiwan banned travelers from Wuhan and President Tsai of Taiwan urged China

"to properly disclose information about the deadly outbreak as a responsible member of the international community and fully share information with Taiwan."

Taiwan had already quarantined a woman with Covid-19 who came from Wuhan and informed China and the WHO. Hong Kong also restricted Wuhan travel but the CCP stopped some of Hong Kongs medical measures against Covid-19 for political reasons

Taiwan bans travelers from Wuhan amid deadly virus outbreak in China

Taiwan authorities on Wednesday banned all travelers to the island from the central Chinese city of Wuhan, where a new and deadly coronavirus has been discovered.

news.abs-cbn.com

An article in the Atlantic addresses all this

Taiwan’s and Hong Kong’s health authorities assessed the pandemic accurately, and not just with respect to the science. They understood the political complexities, including the roles of the WHO and China in shaping official statements about the virus. They did not take the WHO’s word when it was still parroting in late January China’s cover-up that there was no human-to-human transmission.

The WHO Shouldn’t Be a Plaything for Great Powers

Trump’s defunding ploy will only make the organization’s problems worse.

www.theatlantic.com

We can get a glimpse at that alternate timeline by looking at the two places where COVID-19 was successfully contained: Taiwan and Hong Kong. With dense populations and close links to and travel from China, Taiwan and Hong Kong are unlikely candidates for success. Yet Taiwan reported zero new confirmed cases on Tuesday, fewer than 400 confirmed cases since the beginning of the outbreak, and only six deaths. Taiwan’s schools have been open since the end of February and there is no drastic lockdown in the island of almost 30 million people

Hong Kong has had a slightly tougher time. It is ruled by an unpopular leader handpicked by Beijing, so not all the recommendations of its health experts could be implemented. But still, the city has had just more than 1,000 cases and only four deaths, despite never completely closing its border with mainland China and despite a lot of the city functioning as usual. Taiwan and Hong Kong succeeded because they ignored, contradicted, and defied the official position and the advice of the WHO on many significant issues. This is not a coincidence, but a damning indictment of the WHO’s leadership.

Taiwan ignored the WHO’s position that travel bans were ineffective; instead, it closed its borders early and, like Hong Kong, screened travelers aggressively.
Hong Kong and Taiwan remembered that China has a history of covering up epidemics. In 2003, the world didn’t learn about SARS until after it had escaped China and become impossible to deny. (Back then, the WHO openly criticized China for its lack of transparency and cover-up, and we contained the epidemic just in the nick of time.) This time, the WHO was told the truth early on: Taiwanese health authorities sent their own medical teams to Wuhan in December. Those scientists confirmed human-to-human transmission—the most crucial piece of information for determining the difference between a local tragedy (if viruses are only jumping from infected bats or pangolins to humans in wildlife markets where people interact directly with them) and a brewing global pandemic. Taiwan isn’t allowed to be a member of the WHO, because of China’s objections, but it still informed the organization. Hong Kong health authorities, too, announced as early as January 4 that they suspected human-to-human transmission was already occurring, as they also looked at the evidence and their own contacts in Wuhan.

Read: Keep the parks open
Imagine the WHO took notice of the information it received from Taiwan and Hong Kong. Imagine the WHO also recognized that whistleblower doctors in Wuhan were being threatened with jail time. It would have realized that something important was happening, something worth investigating. It could have immediately, but politely, demanded access to the region around Wuhan and its hospitals.
This alternate timeline does not ignore realpolitik. China is not a nation known for cooperating with international agencies when it doesn’t want to. (This tendency is not specific to China.

See Hong Kong info

Bringing a pandemic to heel

How Hong Kong's response to combat the spread of Covid-19 has provided a model for the world to follow.

www.cnbc.com

Snorrie · Feb 1, 2021

I thank all of you folks who have commented on the basic question: " he origin of Sars-Cov-2 or covid-19 virus and resultant pandemic". An excellent dichotomy of arguments was shared and documented. This will be of future use in diagnosis of, and proposals for global corrective actions. As a basis for understanding pandemics outside of politics/ideologies and in the context of cultural/economic/religious practices, I recommend viewing "The Black Death" by Dorsey Armstrong produced by the Great Courses and available for free in the U.S. on Kanopy.com via one's library card. Also, review the medical research done in the late 19th century that finally identified the source of the plague, (Black Death); Wikipedia has a concise article.

adam · Feb 1, 2021

Does Sunshine Li believe President Xi's campaign of near or actual genocide against Uyghurs in China is true ?

From March 2020 Chinese Government spokesmen have said Covid-19 was a bio-attack on China by the USA particularly Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian

No evidence has been provided.

The USA and China have done and planned very bad things against the interests of their own people.

China has pretty much committed genocide on Muslims in China but no one cared not even the muslim countries. It was admitted that President Johnston made up the excuse to go to war in Vietnam in the 1960s. The USA invaded Iraq without real evidence of WMD and having ignored war crimes by Iraqi leaders. China also never complained about either of these Iraqi matters

The US media is certainly controlled by powerful groups but the Chinese media does not allow criticism of its leaders and removes comments about Xi looking like Winnie the Poo, and of the CCP mistakes of the past including the millions killed in camps or of starvation caused by Chairman Mao's plans

Any regime that forbids reference to Winnie the Poo or criticism of Chairman Mao has some serious internal political problems which makes hiding data on SARS a normal thing

What is clear so far is that President Xi and Dr Gao of the Chinese CDC hid data from the world about the SARS Covid-19 outbreak in 2019 for many weeks and months despite having gene sequenced lab tests from Dec 2019 showing SARS. This is also what China did in 2002-03 over SARS and was criticized for by WHO.

This time WHO just repeated what China said and rejected its own WHO scientists concerns or the advice and actions taken by Taiwan on 31st December 2019 and Hong Kong on 4th January 2020

The top Chinese leaders are responsible for allowing the world to become infected by Covid-19.

Chinese diplomat promotes coronavirus conspiracy theory

A prominent Chinese official has promoted a conspiracy theory that the United States military could have brought the novel coronavirus to China -- and it did not originate in the city of Wuhan, as thought.

edition.cnn.com

adam · Feb 4, 2021

Sunshine Li said:
More than one scientific studies done by US and EU scientists have proved that people in EU and USA were not infected by viruses from China but by their own viruses. USA said they got viruses from EU and EU said they got viruses from USA, and even Japan said they got viruses from USA, specifically from Hawaii.

So far the evidence shows that there was only one original type of Wuhan Covid-19 virus circulating around the world in 2019 and early 2020.

Material mutations only occurred later in 2020

06 May 2020 08:00:45 BST
Analysis work from the MRC-University of Glasgow Centre for Virus Research provides evidence that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, has not mutated into different types.

.........only one type of the virus is currently circulating. Their research is published in the journal Virus Evolution.

Dr Oscar MacLean, from the MRC-University of Glasgow Centre for Virus Research, said: “By analysing the extensive genetic sequence variation present in the genomes of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, the evolutionary analysis shows why these claims that multiple types of the virus are currently circulating are unfounded.”

University of Glasgow - University news - Coronavirus research - SARS-CoV-2 has not mutated into different types, new research confirms

www.gla.ac.uk

The NPR docu sets out how the CCP in China responded in 2004 to SARS and then apologized to the world for withholding vital information and shows how the top CCP leaders have done the same again in 2019 and 2020 with SARS-Covid-19

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zzbcG7CRYgQ

adam · Feb 5, 2021

Great overeview from the New York Magazine of the various ways Covid-19 could have come to exist

If you want to see the final conclusion go to the end see under XIV

XIV.
Transmission
So how did we actually get this disease?
Here’s what I think happened. In April 2012, in a copper mine in Mojiang, China...

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/790/b6e/79ccc75c2f04de2c94f04aa25b24ecb86f-graphic-2-revise.2x.w900.jpg

I would add RaTG13 the virus that is closest to Covid-19 (see linked chart above) was

1. only ever stored in one location in the world - the Wuhan Institute of Virology / WIV

2. only ever found in one bat on one occasion in July 2013 (despite 2+ more years of searching)

3. no sample of RaTG13 exists anywhere in the world has

4. shown in tests NOT to be able to infect bats lungs or kidneys

5. only been studied and found by Prof Shi of the WIV

Finally it seems inappropriate that at least one member of the WHO team in Wuhan (Peter Daszak) investigating Covid-19 and the Wuhan Institute of Virology / WIV has

A. worked extensively with Prof Shi and the WIV on bat coronaviruses
B. provided and arranged millions of $ of financing for Prof Shi and the WIV has
C. a direct conflicted interest in the outcome of any investigation
D. organized published research / letters setting out that Prof Shi and the WIV have done nothing wrong from early 2020 related to Covid-19

In The Lancet, in February, a powerful counterstatementappeared, signed by 27 scientists. “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin,” the statement said. “Scientists from multiple countries have published and analyzed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife, as have so many other emerging pathogens.”
The behind-the-scenes organizer of this Lancet statement, Peter Daszak, is a zoologist and bat-virus sample collector and the head of a New York nonprofit called EcoHealth Alliance — a group that (as veteran science journalist Fred Guterl explained later in Newsweek) has channeled money from the National Institutes of Health to Shi Zhengli’s laboratory in Wuhan, allowing the lab to carry on recombinant research into diseases of bats and humans. “We have a choice whether to stand up and support colleagues who are being attacked and threatened daily by conspiracy theorists or to just turn a blind eye,” Daszak said in February in Science magazine.

Broad host range of SARS-CoV-2 predicted by comparative and structural analysis of ACE2 in vertebrates

The novel severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is the cause of COVID-19, a major pandemic that threatens millions of human lives and the global economy. We identified a large number of mammals that can potentially be infected by SARS-CoV-2 via their ACE2 proteins. This...

www.pnas.org

RaTG13 was found in feces of the intermediate horseshoe bat (Rhinolophus affinis) (1), but to our knowledge this virus has not been shown to bind to ACE2 of R. affinis or any other bat species. In addition, RaTG13 was reported not to infect human cells expressing Rhinolophus sinicus ACE2 in a recent study (65). Relatedly, Hoffman et al. (63) were unable to infect bat kidney- and lung-derived cell lines derived from six different species with VSV pseudotypes bearing SARS-CoV S protein or pseudotypes of two bat SARS-related CoV (Bg08 and Rp3) (63).

adam · Feb 5, 2021

Sunshine Li said:
some bats' coronaviruses are more idential in genetic sequences to COVID-19 virus than the horseshoe bats in a cave/mine shaft in Yunnan Province in China.

You make statements that have no basis or evidence as if they are true

RaTG13 and Covid-19 are the closest viruses to each other found to date.

If you read WIV / Professor Shi's own research you will see she identifies RaTG13 as a very rare SARS virus that is very unusually genetically connected to human SARS with real human pandemic potential

It seems you are either making deliberately false statements or do not know or care what you write about the research available

The history of Professor Shi and bat coronavirus work to make them infectious to people is well known

Peter Daszak's long financial and public support and research connections with WIV and Prof Shi are clear. DASZAK is not an independent party.

Why any organization would include Daszak in an independent investigation of WIV and Professor Shi and Covid-19 remains to be independently and seriously explained

Wuhan is the only place in the world RaTG13 was stored or existed beyond the one day day it was found in July 2013 in a cave/mine shaft in Yunnan Province in China (never to be found anywhere again)

RaTG13 has never been independently confirmed to be a natural virus and only studied by Prof Shi. No sample of RaTG13 now exists

So far no better origin for Covid-19 exists

The CCP has done everything possible to stop any timely independent review of Covid-19 as it did with SARS in 2002-04.

The CCP refuses to allow anyone access to WIV coronavirus researchers who disappeared or were ill shortly before Covid-19 broke out in Wuhan and whose details have been purged from WIV websites

Hunt for COVID-19’s missing ‘patient zero’

The fate of a Chinese researcher believed to be the world’s first COVID-19 patient remains a mystery despite a year-long search by Western intelligence officials investigating the origins of the pandemic.

www.news.com.au

The CCP criticised countries for taking normal SARS health travel restrictions against China when China had locked down infected areas and knew human to human transmission existed

China scolds ‘mean’ US for coronavirus travel warning

Beijing called the US State Department’s move “truly mean” given the World Health Organization (WHO) had commended its containment efforts and not recommended travel or trade curbs.

nypost.com

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

China officially apologized in 2003 over SARS for doing what it did over Covid-19 in 2019 and 2020

one day after the health minister explicitly said China had followed its own rules in dealing with the SARSproblem Chinas' CDC said

"Today, we apologize to everyone," said Li Liming, director of the Chinese Center for Disease Control.

"Our medical departments and our mass media suffered poor coordination. We weren't able to muster our forces in helping to provide everyone with scientific publicity and allowing the masses to get hold of this sort of knowledge."

Bush Signs SARS Quarantine Order

Gives Health Officials Power To Quarantine Those With Mystery Illness

www.cbsnews.com

BEIJING, China -- Beijing authorities have gone to staggering lengths to hide SARS patients from visiting World Health Organization (WHO) inspectors, according to TIME magazine.

At one of the most reputable of the city's hospitals, 31 patients suffering the potentially lethal disease were driven around in ambulances for the duration of the WHO visit, said TIME.

And at a military hospital, 40 SARS patients were said to have been moved to a hotel for the duration of the WHO tour, in an apparent attempt to deceive inspectors about the true extent of the outbreak.

On Friday, China's President Hu Jintao called on authorities to provide full support for SARS research and to cooperate with international agencies. (Full story)

"[Thursday's ruling inner circle party] meeting explicitly warned against the covering up of SARS cases and demanded the accurate, timely and honest reporting of the SARS situation," Xinhua, China's official news service, reported.

The leader's comments followed WHO criticism that Beijing was not reporting SARS patients in military hospitals.

The TIME report that quoted unnamed doctors from the People's Liberation Army Hospital and China Japan Friendship Hospital. (Time report)

and quoted a retired senior doctor as confirming that Beijing was continuing to deliberately hide SARS cases.

"I've seen an internal Ministry of Health report that puts the number of confirmed SARS cases in Beijing at between 200 and 300, based on accounts from individual hospitals," the doctor said.

Publicly, the Ministry of Health maintains there have only been 37 SARS cases in Beijing.

"Another internal document I've seen says that in the last 10 days there have been more than 100 new cases reported in Beijing," the medical source told TIME.

CNN.com - China hid SARS patients - report - Apr. 18, 2003

WHO criticises Chinese reporting of SARS virus

China coronavirus: The lessons learned from the Sars outbreak

Almost two decades after Sars, a new mystery virus puts China back in the global spotlight.

www.bbc.com

China is rewriting the facts about coronavirus to suit its own narrative | Carrie Gracie

Our Panorama programme shows how the government has tried to hide the truth, says BBC presenter Carrie Gracie

www.theguardian.com

CNN.com - China censors CNN SARS report - May. 15, 2003

Sars Gives China a Lesson in Globalization | YaleGlobal Online

yaleglobal.yale.edu

WHO | Update 95 - SARS: Chronology of a serial killer

www.who.int

May 2018	The Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.
July 2019	The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left her post, and the Administration decided to eliminate the role.
October 2019	“Currently, there are insufficient funding sources designated for the federal government to use in response to a severe influenza pandemic.” [Crimson Contagion exercise findings]
January 22	“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
January 24	Trump praises China’s handling of the coronavirus: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
January 28	“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency...This is going to be the roughest thing you face" Trump’s National Security Advisor to Trump
January 30	"The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on US soil,...This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.” [Memo from Trump Trade Advisor Peter Navarro]
February 2	“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
February 7	“It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu... This is deadly stuff” [Trump in a private taped interview with Bob Woodward, made public September 9]
February 10	“I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.”
February 10	“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”
February 24	“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
February 25	“CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
February 25	“I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
February 26	“The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
February 26	“We're going very substantially down, not up.”
February 26	“Well, we're testing everybody that we need to test. And we're finding very little problem. Very little problem.”
February 26	"This is a flu. This is like a flu."
February 27	“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
February 28	“We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
March 2	“You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2	“A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4	“Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild.”
March 4	“If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5	“I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5	“The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6	“I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6	“You have to be calm. It’ll go away.”
March 6	“Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6	“I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6	“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 7	“When we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”
March 7	“No, I’m not concerned at all.
March 8	“We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9	During a news conference, White House officials say the U.S. will have tested one million people that week and thereafter would complete 4 million tests per week. By the end of the week, the CDC had only completed a paltry 4,000 tests.
March 9	“This blindsided the world.”
March 10	“Just stay calm. It will go away.”
March 11	“It goes away….It’s going away. We want it to go away with very, very few deaths.”
March 12	Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, tells Congress that the country does not have sufficient testing. “The system is not really geared to what we need right now,” he said. “That is a failing. Let’s admit it.”
March 12	"You know, you see what's going on. And so I just wanted that to stop as it pertains to the United States. And that's what we've done. We've stopped it."
March 13	“I don’t take responsibility at all.”
March 13	The Atlantic reported that less than 14,000 tests had been done in the ten weeks since the administration had first been notified of the virus, though Mike Pence had promised the week prior that 1.5 million tests would be available by this time.
March 14	“I’d rate it a ten,” [Trump’s rating of his coronavirus response]
March 15	“Relax”
March 15	“This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”
March 16	“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment-try getting it yourselves,”
March 17	“The only thing we haven’t done well is get good press.”
March 17	“I felt like it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”
March 19	I intended "to always play it down.” [Trump in a private taped interview with Bob Woodward, made public September 9]

Connecting the dots: which is the real origin of the global deadly COVID-19 pandemic, China, Italy or USA? What has biotech brought us?

ASK THE COMMUNITY