An Apple in Your Hand Warps Spacetime. So Does Every Other Object in Our Infinite Universe

efarina96

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An apple in your hand effects all of eternity. Whether you eat it, throw it at a wall, or throw it in the trash, your choice is a manifestation of relative infinity that impacts all things. Think "butterfly effect" on steroids. You can never possibly know the impact of any choice you make because the impact is *literally* unending. Take an apple 5 lightyears away... 50 lightyears away... 999,999,999,999,999,999,999 ^999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,984,812,999,999,999,999,999 lightyears away... Whatever happens to that apple, whether subjected to the whims of choice, laws of physics, or both, has an infinite impact across all of space and time. The further away from the observer's relative sphere of observation/influence the apple is, the less measureable the impact is on said observer's understanding/calculations of reality, BECAUSE THE OBSERVER DOES NOT HAVE INFINITE CONSCIOUSNESS- *BUT IT ALL ADDS UP*. An object beyond our horizon of sight that contributes 1*10^-999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999% of the observed impact of dark matter and dark energy does not contribute 100% of the impact of dark matter and dark energy, *hence the fact that our calculations do not appear to demonstrate a universe of infinite gravity* because ALL OBJECTS EXERT A UNIQUE FORCE OF GRAVITY (WHICH IS NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS THAN THE WARPING OF SPACETIME) RELATIVE TO OUR OBSERVATION. Am I being extreme? Absolutely. I keep thinking one of these days you all will get the extremely simple and frankly indisputable point I am making: there is only one truth. The Universe is Infinite.
 
Feb 28, 2020
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An apple in your hand effects all of eternity. Whether you eat it, throw it at a wall, or throw it in the trash, your choice is a manifestation of relative infinity that impacts all things. Think "butterfly effect" on steroids. You can never possibly know the impact of any choice you make because the impact is *literally* unending. Take an apple 5 lightyears away... 50 lightyears away... 999,999,999,999,999,999,999 ^999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,984,812,999,999,999,999,999 lightyears away... Whatever happens to that apple, whether subjected to the whims of choice, laws of physics, or both, has an infinite impact across all of space and time. The further away from the observer's relative sphere of observation/influence the apple is, the less measureable the impact is on said observer's understanding/calculations of reality, BECAUSE THE OBSERVER DOES NOT HAVE INFINITE CONSCIOUSNESS- *BUT IT ALL ADDS UP*. An object beyond our horizon of sight that contributes 1*10^-999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999% of the observed impact of dark matter and dark energy does not contribute 100% of the impact of dark matter and dark energy, *hence the fact that our calculations do not appear to demonstrate a universe of infinite gravity* because ALL OBJECTS EXERT A UNIQUE FORCE OF GRAVITY (WHICH IS NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS THAN THE WARPING OF SPACETIME) RELATIVE TO OUR OBSERVATION. Am I being extreme? Absolutely. I keep thinking one of these days you all will get the extremely simple and frankly indisputable point I am making: there is only one truth. The Universe is Infinite.
The apple may well have an impact, but not instantly. Gravity waves only travel at light speed, so any impact will also take an amount of time similar to the orders of magnitude you are talking about here. The butterfly effect is not instant.:)
 
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efarina96

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The apple may well have an impact, but not instantly. Gravity waves only travel at light speed, so any impact will also take an amount of time similar to the orders of magnitude you are talking about here. The butterfly effect is not instant.:)
Wrong. The apple in my hand instantly exerts a force on the Earth, which affects the force the Earth exerts on the Sun, which affects the force the Sun exerts on the planets, which affects the force the Solar System exerts on the Milky Way, which affects the force the Milky Way exerts on Andromeda, all in a way we might consider to be unmeasurable. Cause and effect is ultimately part of an infinite continuum, where every thing is constantly and persistently effected by everything. Sorry to be so blunt. Feel free to explain why I am wrong.
 
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efarina96

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The apple may well have an impact, but not instantly. Gravity waves only travel at light speed, so any impact will also take an amount of time similar to the orders of magnitude you are talking about here. The butterfly effect is not instant.:)
This persistent affect is also the explanation behind quantum entanglement, by the way.
 
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Wrong. The apple in my hand instantly exerts a force on the Earth, which affects the force the Earth exerts on the Sun, which affects the force the Sun exerts on the planets, which affects the force the Solar System exerts on the Milky Way, which affects the force the Milky Way exerts on Andromeda, all in a way we might consider to be unmeasurable. Cause and effect is ultimately part of an infinite continuum, where every thing is constantly and persistently effected by everything. Sorry to be so blunt. Feel free to explain why I am wrong.
Cause and effect is ultimately part of an infinite continuum, where every thing is constantly and persistently effected by everything.
Exactly correct, but not instantly!

'Cause and effect' works by one particle/wave affecting another usually by collision of particles propagating one or more at a time, like dominoes. It takes time.

If you just hold the apple steady there will be no further effects, the sun etc will have taken account of it. Cause an effect needs motion, so you only create an effect if you move or throw the apple. this effect will only propagate at light speed, and won't affect the sun for a further 8mins.

The results from LIGO show light and gravity waves to be the same speed (I think). :)
 
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This persistent affect is also the explanation behind quantum entanglement, by the way.
The concept of instant is meaningless. For something to have an instant effect would require an infinite communication speed of something - just not possible!

Just because no one has measured the speed of entanglement doesn't mean you should assume it's instant. Nothing is instant. Entanglement like everything else has a reason or mechanism behind it, we just haven't discovered it yet.

Even in relativity 'instant' is meaningless, observations depend on how the observer is moving.:)
 

efarina96

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The concept of instant is meaningless. For something to have an instant effect would require an infinite communication speed of something - just not possible!

Just because no one has measured the speed of entanglement doesn't mean you should assume it's instant. Nothing is instant. Entanglement like everything else has a reason or mechanism behind it, we just haven't discovered it yet.

Even in relativity 'instant' is meaningless, observations depend on how the observer is moving.:)
Infinity has no beginning and no end. It is not beholden to the thermodynamic arrow of time the way you and I are. The reason Einstein's Theory of General Relativity points to a singularity "before" the dawn of time as well as at the heart of a black hole, is that Eternity is everything, always and forever. What we perceive as a beginning, is eternity. What we perceive as an end, is eternity. All matter and all energy is eternal (e=mc^2, matter cannot be created or destroyed. Let me say it again for emphasis: matter cannot be *created* or *destroyed*) We observe it in a particular order in accordance with our observations of light, which moves at a limited speed relative to the eternal void of the spacetime vaccuum. Apologies if some of my terminology is not precise enough, but you should be able to get the point. So, not instant. Infinite. Understand the difference.
 
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efarina96

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Exactly correct, but not instantly!

'Cause and effect' works by one particle/wave affecting another usually by collision of particles propagating one or more at a time, like dominoes. It takes time.

If you just hold the apple steady there will be no further effects, the sun etc will have taken account of it. Cause an effect needs motion, so you only create an effect if you move or throw the apple. this effect will only propagate at light speed, and won't affect the sun for a further 8mins.

The results from LIGO show light and gravity waves to be the same speed (I think). :)
Everything moves, always. The Earth spins on its axis and orbits the sun. The apple moves with it, adding mass and thereby gravitational force via the warping of spacetime to the Earth, Sun, and all other massive objects in the Universe. Everything is connected, always.
 
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Feb 28, 2020
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Infinity has no beginning and no end. It is not beholden to the thermodynamic arrow of time the way you and I are. The reason Einstein's Theory of General Relativity points to a singularity "before" the dawn of time as well as at the heart of a black hole, is that Eternity is everything, always and forever. What we perceive as a beginning, is eternity. What we perceive as an end, is eternity. All matter and all energy is eternal (e=mc^2, matter cannot be created or destroyed. Let me say it again for emphasis: matter cannot be *created* or *destroyed*) We observe it in a particular order in accordance with our observations of light, which moves at a limited speed relative to the eternal void of the spacetime vaccuum. Apologies if some of my terminology is not precise enough, but you should be able to get the point. So, not instant. Infinite. Understand the difference.
So, not instant
Thank you

Definitly

I mostly agree with everything else you've said here.

Except, I don't believe a true void exists anywhere, I think it contains something like quantum foam or quantum fields etc. Infinite yes, but full of something. If there's something here there's something everywhere! :)
 
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efarina96

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Thank you

Definitly

I mostly agree with everything else you've said here.

Except, I don't believe a true void exists anywhere, I think it contains something like quantum foam or quantum fields etc. Infinite yes, but full of something. If there's something here there's something everywhere! :)
Fair point! I think there are a lot of theories out there regarding virtual particles popping in and out of existence in the spacetime vaccuum, and I didn't mean to preclude that possibility with my choice of terminology.
 
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efarina96

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AgreedAgreed :)
Thanks for taking the time to chat. I get a little carried away sometimes but I get so excited... And I feel like in my life when I know I'm right, I usually am. And I really feel strongly that I have stumbled onto something extremely important. I know I am not as knowledgeable as any legitimate scientist out there, but I also feel that is not the be all end all. Sometimes a fresh perspective is important.
 
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